Wow!!! the founding fathers were right........

POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Monday, July 16, 2007 04:08
VIEWED: 3756
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KANEMAN

Wednesday, June 6, 2007 3:21 PM

LEADB

Wednesday, June 6, 2007 8:26 PM

That's really excellent. Thanks for sharing the link.

ALLIETHORN7

Wednesday, June 6, 2007 8:44 PM

That was... uplifting.
I have a whole new faith in America as a country...
And have more reason to be against Bush.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

-Danny

Could it have been something I said,
Or was it something that I did,
Did I ruin my chance, have you written me off?
Tell me, where did I cross the line,
And can I work my way back this time?
Will I always regret this decision...
THRICE RULES!!!!!!!!!
My Master went to the Moon in a Rocket of Flamin' Cheese!

I LIKE CHEESE!!!

REAVERMAN

Wednesday, June 6, 2007 8:49 PM

Great video. Very thought-provoking.

[img] [/img]

"I refuse to submit,
To the god you say is kind.
I know what's right, and it is time,
It's time to fight, and free our minds!

Our spirits were forged in snow and ice,
To bend like steel forged over fire.
We were not made to bend like reed,
Or to turn the other cheek!"

- from the song "Thousand Years of Opression" by Amon Amarth

TRAVELER

Thursday, June 7, 2007 1:23 AM

Our Founding Fathers took a big risk. A government that no one ever dreamed of before. The American Revolution was hard enough and now they had to prove it was worth it. I wish more people would read our history and understand what this country has stood for and how it has seen its mistakes and made laws to correct them. That is the wonderful thing about our Constitution. It actually was designed so it could be changed to correct itself. It took wisdom to put that in the Constitution. And it takes wisdom to use it correctly.

So learn from this video and read. Learn about this country called the United States. Amazing things have been done here and I believe even more amazing things will happen if we take the time to learn.

Thanks for the video Kaneman.
Traveler

Traveler

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 7, 2007 7:10 AM

Our Founding Fathers were wise, this is true.. however...

If they had been a little less idealistic and a little more realistic, this situation would not be upon us.

One of the original arguments against the Constitution, which lead to the Bill of Rights being added to pacify Patrick Henry and his followers is that it did not go far ENOUGH in protecting the rights of the States and Citizens from potential abuse at the hands of the Fedgov, and there was no truly effective recourse or check against it save armed revolt, which would fail utterly in that the enemy of liberty, a standing army, was downright guaranteed by the nature of the thing.

While our Founding Fathers we're wise and for the most part, decent folk, no one likes to be told they are wrong, and if they had actually listened to and acted on most of the things that the Anti-Federalists pointed out we'd be in better shape, but most of them took the line of thought Madison expressed about standing armies.
"No one would ever dare stoop so low, so there is no need to explicitly forbid it."
Which is the summary of his argument and for that, Madison, may you quiver in the purgatory of offensive ringtones for a coupla decades.

The AF's pointed out certain flaws.

#1 - Naming certain rights for protecting would cause the Fedgov to exclude every one not listed.

#2 - With the insufficient controls upon it, it would lead to a bloating, evergrowing runaway FedGov monster that would "eat out our substance" and exist in the end only to serve itself at our expense.

#3 - State sovereignity would all but evaporate in spite of the amendments reserving *ALL* powers not specifically given to the States because they were easily ignored and unenforceable.

#3A - If a State or collective of such got the upper hand and used this process to strongarm the rest, a civil war would explode upon us, and quickly so.

#4 - That NO power to tax ever be given the FedGov, because it would run rampant with it at the very moment ambition made it possible to do so.

http://www.thisnation.com/library/antifederalist/index.html

I cite that almost every single argument against The Constitution as written at the time, has been entirely correct and came back to bite us.

Federalist Side - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Federalist_Papers

All that bein said, while the Constitution ain't perfect, it's more than "Just a damned piece of paper" and should it ever be, yanno, actually OBEYED, actually ENFORCED - you could lock up most of the DC population and throw em UNDER the damned jail.

I do not call us a Constitutional Republic anymore and to pretend we are is polite fiction at the very best, we ARE a Corpo-Fascist Oligarchy with Totalarian leanings, to be downright honest about it - and admitting that is the first step towards changing it.

Yes, I would very much like to see us return to being a Constitutional Republic, but in the meantime be damned if imma pretend we are - that's just bullshit.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

KANEMAN

Thursday, June 7, 2007 1:55 PM

"not go far ENOUGH in protecting the rights of the States and Citizens from potential abuse at the hands of the Fedgov, and there was no truly effective recourse or check against it save armed revolt, which would fail utterly in that the enemy of liberty, a standing army, was downright guaranteed by the nature of the thing."

Not sure what you are saying here...Can you elaborate?

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 7, 2007 4:04 PM

Don't need to, read them links if you need elaboration, the core of the AntiFederalist argument is more valid today than it was even then.

-F

KANEMAN

Thursday, June 7, 2007 4:08 PM

"against it save armed revolt, which would fail utterly in that the enemy of liberty, a standing army, was downright guaranteed by the nature of the thing."

Did read, just not getting that. Isn't the standing army made up of the very citz. that would and could revolt?

LEADB

Thursday, June 7, 2007 4:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
"against it save armed revolt, which would fail utterly in that the enemy of liberty, a standing army, was downright guaranteed by the nature of the thing."

Did read, just not getting that. Isn't the standing army made up of the very citz. that would and could revolt?

Yes; but keep in mind that standing armies are trained to follow orders. Unless the abuse of the Fedgov is sufficient to really convince them to do otherwise, they will "protect the constitution of the US", which is generally interpreted to be the sitting government. The problem is the erosion is occuring so slowly that folks, especially young idealists who would join the army, tend to perceive the status quo as what they are there to defend.

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