The American Civil War
POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Thursday, June 12, 2025 05:51
VIEWED: 6760
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I've read about this war from every side possible and I cannot see how the people of the South decided it was a righteous war to fight. Sure they fought for their way of life, but their way of life was stupid and moronic from where I can see it. All of those young soldiers dead because of an unrighteous cause that was stupid and devoid of any REAL meaning. It's enough to bring a tears to your eyes. Why do we throw away our youth lives for momentary laziness, or ideas that simply don't work and are stupid?
What do you think?
-River
P.S. "We will Rise again" they scream. STFU and sit down bozo I say.
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In the interests of remaining civil (lol), I will just say that we are all entitled to our opinions and I in no way endorse anything you have to say on this matter.
I recommend you need to read up on the war somewhere where history wasn't altered like it was in our Social Studies books growing up.
Let me ask you this... I know it's "fantasy", but did you feel that the Alliance or the Independents were more justified in their actions on Firefly?
EDIT: For the record, I grew up and have lived my entire life in states which touch Lake Michigan. I have been brainwashed by the Union my entire life and I've come to these conclusions. Please save any ignorant hick remarks. Thanks!
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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It's not something you're ever gonna put in a soundbite or even message board post, but if you wanna understand WHY it happened, you need to read the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers in the debate over the ratification of the US Constitution, because that is where the seeds of the conflict were planted, and then follow their growth all the way on to the spark that set it off.
Every revolt, every rebellion, in the US, has had the exact same spark that triggered the powder keg, from Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion all the way up to the first Civil War and to the future second one, it's been the same spark - in fact, the same one that lit the fuse of the American Revolution.
Taxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_Abominations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Tariff
Not the whole cause, and only one of many, many factors in the Civil War... but that was the spark that lit the powder.
And mark my words - it'll be the spark again, just you watch.
-Frem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays_rebellion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_rebellion
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Thanks for the links Frem. I do think I have something to do for my last 3 hours of my work week now. 
No such thing as too much knowledge from as many possible sources to alleviate tunnel vision and allow a much wider perspective.
From several things she put in her post, methinks the confused young lass is under the mistaken notion that the Civil War was about slavery. I can't laugh, much as I might want to. I grew up thinking that's what it was about too. What's a straight A student who believes everything he reads to do?
I'm such a naughty sheeple now, aren't I? "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
In the interests of remaining civil (lol), I will just say that we are all entitled to our opinions and I in no way endorse anything you have to say on this matter.
I recommend you need to read up on the war somewhere where history wasn't altered like it was in our Social Studies books growing up.
Let me ask you this... I know it's "fantasy", but did you feel that the Alliance or the Independents were more justified in their actions on Firefly?
EDIT: For the record, I grew up and have lived my entire life in states which touch Lake Michigan. I have been brainwashed by the Union my entire life and I've come to these conclusions. Please save any ignorant hick remarks. Thanks!
LoL,, ROFL!!!!
Total denial! Face it..the South got PWNed by the Alliance ...er I mean the Union. LoL!!!!!
-River
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LOL.... no doubt. Can't argue that.
History is written by the winners. "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Hey Frem....
I haven't read it all yet, but I have to say my favorite quote so far was by Henry Carey in his 1861 letter to Abraham Lincoln (A Repuglican for those who don't know), in regards to the importance of passing the Morrill Tariff.
Quote:
"There is but one way to make the Party a permanent one, & that is, by the prompt repudiation to the free trade system."
re·pu·di·a·tion
noun
1. rejecting or disowning or disclaiming as invalid; "Congressional repudiation of the treaty that the President had negotiated"
2. refusal to acknowledge or pay a debt or honor a contract (especially by public authorities); "the repudiation of the debt by the city"
3. the exposure of falseness or pretensions; "the debunking of religion has been too successful"
LOL... I'm sure that free trade has been stifled or even non existant since the beginning, not Bill O'Reilly the RIAA or any College Economics professor is going to change my mind on that, but for the most part it is free enough that it's a real hard sell to convince people who aren't starving that free trade is a fallacy, and most likely always was. I must admit that even I can't believe such a blatent attack on free trade was written on paper though, and even more interesting that a "great" (Repuglican) President, such as Lincoln, would support anything attacking free trade. What's even more interesting about it is the fact that Henry Carey is known as an "economist of the American School of capitalism" *giggles*
Wait a minute! WTF!!!?? I was always told that Capitalism and Free Trade (and Repuglicans) were inseperable. Or... I'm pretty sure I was told that at some point.... or I thought that was a generally held belief.... or... ummmmm.... maybe in a soundbyte?... uh.... my head hurts.... I'm going to pop some pills and go watch TV now.
Also of note: Karl Marx "supported the North and downplayed the tariff issue. He argued that the major cause of secession was slavery – and that the tariff was just a pretext." Then again, it would be counterproductive to his vision if his people were to belive that a country as great as America could ever implode due to the elimination of free trade. (I believe they would call this Motive if this were Law & Order)
Charles Dickens had this to say about the beginnings of the war: "With the election of Lincoln and an exclusive Northern party taking over the federal government, the time for withdrawal had arrived … The conflict is between semi-independent communities [in which] every feeling and interest [in the South] calls for political partition, and every pocket interest [in the North] calls for union … So the case stands, and under all the passion of the parties and the cries of battle lie the two chief moving causes of the struggle. Union means so many millions a year lost to the South; secession means the loss of the same millions to the North. The love of money is the root of this, as of many other evils.… And anybody who actually cracked open one of those large heavy rectangular objects in High School called English Textbooks and read a few chapters knows that "Great Expectations's" Pip was the literary equivalent of Weezer's rise to wealth and fame, yet despite their newfound social status's they both shared the same inability to get the girl. Truly a legend before its time. Charles Dickens, as any literary scholar will not hesitate to tell you, is the shit.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Now River.... I should be fair and admit that slavery, as slaves were considered by many on both sides of the battle to be little more than property and tools at the time, likely had something to do with the war. Largely though, the slavery aspect has been used as just another cog in the propoganda machine against not just the South or the Southerner, so much as a tool to kill any desires within any of us to rise against an ever more tyrannical and oppressive government. It's an inarguable argument. Nobody can defend slavery, and if you made the war a rightous battle to end slavery you've effectively eliminated any good intentions and ideals the Confederation had in the minds of the sheep. My biggest problem with how the Civil War is taught in schools is that slavery is all we're told about it. Of course you believe the motives of any Southerner is not "righteous" because it is impossible in the wake of a public school education, and documentary after documentary on the subject, which taught us that the Civil War was the North's epic and righteous battle against the tyrannical south to end the horrific practices of slavery.
All of the textbooks conveniently left out the truths such as, but not limited to:
1) People in the North owned slaves as well. There was no magical barrier that prevented people from the North from owning slaves.
2) The fact that there were black slave owners who themselves owned black slaves.
3) There were familys of white slaves who we know as "share croppers". The only difference between a share cropper and a slave is that the sharecroppers had the freedom to leave when they wanted to. Since they had neither a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of and many had lots of kids, they often chose to stay anyhow and work for room and board. A share cropper never had a chance to accumulate wealth and own property, thus they never had the right to vote or the hopes that someday they or their sons may ever have that right, even though they themselves were white. That's right! And we were lead to believe that it was only blacks and women who didn't get to vote.
I seriously have to go now. I'm wrapping up my shift at work. I'd like to discuss this further, and I enjoy talking about it and learning more about it. Thanks for bringing up the topic River and thank you Frem for the links. I didn't get to finish them today, but what I read was very informative. River... I implore you to read more into this, and from a variety of sources. I know you said you read this from all angles, but I can't possibly believe that you did with the attitudes you apparently have against the Southerner and the Confederacy.
It took a lot for some people to wrap their heads around the fact that Mal and crew are basically good guys. Not saints.... but good guys. That's why Firefly was so great. There was no Black and White.... just many varying shades of grey. Nobody is righteous... not one person. That only happens in Hollywood. "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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OMG!
I'm still drunk and I woke up on the floor!!! And this topic with with my name attached to it!!!!!??? er, sorry, but I don't remember starting this topic. It wasn't me, it was my evil twin or something...
-River I think
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So if it was evil to meddle in the way of the South (which was based on slavery, can't get around that fact) then it is evil to meddle in Iraq and the Sudan. Right?
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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