Joss Post at Whedonesque

POSTED BY: FireflyPassenger
UPDATED: Monday, June 11, 2007 08:49
VIEWED: 40107
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ZOID

Friday, June 1, 2007 12:41 AM

AgentRouka:

You only missed one point, which I had added later, but before your response posted. As regards humans being predators:

"...As proof, your eyes, apart from being limpid pools, are both located on the front of your head for better stereoscopic vision for locating prey. Non-predators' eyes are located on the sides of the head, for wider field of vision to locate predators. .."

This is the generally accepted criteria.

As far as tools are concerned, palm-sized shaped rocks with crafted pointed edges appear alongside the tools to make them, beginning around 2.6 million years ago. From there to axes (fixing shaped rocks with crafted pointed edges to the crook of a branch or bone to increase leverage and blow force). Undoubtedly, there were more than 'hand axes' in the way of tools. But, weapons were in the first grouping of tools as well. Please read http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/ANTHRO/plummer/Plummer_2004.pdf for a readable (and enjoyable) account of Olduwan tool makers and their societies.

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

KAYLEEWANNABEE

Friday, June 1, 2007 4:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

KAYLEEWANNABEE - Well thank you. I'd like to think I had pretty good taste in women, but reaffirmations always a nice thing. And I knew you were a Ron Paul guy. I'm just hoping that he's not a planted "token patriot" and that he really gets the shot that he diserves. We all diserve it, I think. I know that somebody like that could do wonders towards rebuilding my faith in the government.

Well, I lost whatever faith I had long ago...if Ron Paul gets anywhere, it may restore my faith (if I had any...debatable) in the intelligence of the "Average American Voter."

Quote:
KayleeWannabee - LOL.... then you go and follow up Zoids post with a beautiful post about how important our right to arms is. I couldn't have said it better myself. (How young is too young, BTW? )

Again with the compliments! *head swells* Uhm...I'm 42, and I think that 27 is a tad too young...although my aunt is 18 years younger than my uncle, and it has worked for them!

Quote:
Sorry to the both of you that I couldn't continue reading the gun/anti-gun debate that that escelated into. No offence to you personally Zoid, because I'm sure you're a great person, but Anti-gun stuff really gets under my skin, particularly when the anti-gun folks think and speak of themselves as superior and more spiritual than pro-gun folk, which starts to get downright insulting for the most part....

Yee haa! Let's go shootin!
(Of course, you knew I'd agree with you, right?)

I used to be a gun banner myself, before I graduated from high school and made my way out into the real world. At the time I held my anti-gun views with the same religious fervor that Zoid does. Then real life intruded into my mental Utopia and I realized that the rhetoric and the facts didn't add up. Dang it if reality doesn't win out over fantasy every time! What's up with that!?!

Whatever...to each his own.

-----
It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, June 1, 2007 6:05 AM

AgentRourka - I don't feel the need to go through all of your posts and disect them one at a time, but if you feel that my opinion here needs more justification, I'm sure I could oblige. It's obvious by the general tone of your posts, in this thread and the thread where we were discussing the legalization of prostitution, that at some point in your life you have been slitghted by a man or you feel that you've been slighted by men in general. I'm venturing a guess here that perhaps your parents were divorced when you were young and your dad wasn't exactly Mr. Role Model from that point forward (possibly never was in the first place). You seem almost hell bent on justifying women's equality and oftentimes come off as trying to establish women as superior to men. Maybe you aren't even aware that this is how you come off yourself. To your average guy who doesn't hate women and doesn't feel himself to be someone who goes out of his way to disrespect them, this is a point of view which can come of as very combative and would be frustrating if I really cared enough to go out of my way to prove that not all guys are bad guys to people who just don't want to believe that. Truthfully, there is probably a lot more that you say that I agree with than you think.

That being said, I'm sorry if you're not a man-hater by practice and I appreciate the fact that you didn't lash out at me for making such a bold observation. My parents were divorced at 5, so I am in no way speaking down about being in that situation if I'm right about your parents. It's tough being in that position and I know after 22 years of being in the middle of their shit since they divorced that I have absolutely no clue how to raise children or have a family because of it. I don't see a family life anytime in my near future. Maybe when I can finally get over myself and things like that become more important on my list of priorities, but at this point in my life I know that in any long term commitment such as marriage I am far too self centered to put any woman or children through my idiosyncrasies. At this point, I feel to do so would be to just extend their bullshit one more generation and I don't want that hassle anymore than I want to put anybody through it.

----

As for the rest of our discussion about what women want and what women say they want, I can't really argue any of your points that you've made today. All I can do is to ask you to put yourself in a man's shoes and realize how confusing it is. We really don't know what the hell you want. In the end, it's not that I disrespect women now, but I don't go out of my way to buy them things or hold open doors for them anymore either and I find that I have a much easier time with women now that I don't dote on anybody. Personally, I think it sucks. I used to be a romantic and I liked really being into a girl, but there's only so many times that a man can go through that and be shot down or discarded before his heart gets hardened and he is incapable of feeling that way anymore. What's the point? I remember watching Married With Children when I was a kid and wondering how Al could be so cynical about love, but for the past couple of years I've felt a lot like Al myself. I don't think I'll ever care about a woman again half as much as I care about myself and that's pretty sad. I don't even really like myself all that much to begin with. I'm kind of a self hating narcisist now, to rip of how Dr. Cox from Scrubs once described himself.

The truth is, there aren't really many people I do respect. This isn't so say I mistreat people or go out of my way to belittle anybody, but I just don't really enjoy the company of others all that much. The older I get and the more truth about the world that is revealed to me, the more I find I don't really care for human beings as a whole. I didn't really understand why HP Lovecraft would describe humans in the morbidly negative light that he did when he wrote, but sometimes I get to thinking that we're nothing more than evil incarnate wrapped up in

AGENTROUKA

Friday, June 1, 2007 6:35 AM

I'm only replying to this bit for now..

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
AgentRourka - I don't feel the need to go through all of your posts and disect them one at a time, but if you feel that my opinion here needs more justification, I'm sure I could oblige.

I'd hate to pollute the thread with this subject but, in all honesty, I don't think an "it's obvious" without saying what about it is obvious really answers my question, so if you could PM me about this, I'd appreciate it.

I'm not requesting much, just a pointer at what about my tone seems so obviously man-hating when I feel nothing of the sort.

Quote:

It's obvious by the general tone of your posts, in this thread and the thread where we were discussing the legalization of prostitution, that at some point in your life you have been slitghted by a man or you feel that you've been slighted by men in general.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but I have not been slighted.

My experience has been very lucky. But it's certain attitudes that disturb me, such as limiting women's freedom and right to govern their own body. Or excusing one gender or the other for behaviors they are well capable of controlling.

I do remember you saying this to me back in the prostitution thread and felt at certain points that you were using this argument to avoid answering my questions.

Quote:

You seem almost hell bent on justifying women's equality and oftentimes come off as trying to establish women as superior to men. Maybe you aren't even aware that this is how you come off yourself.

Now, that makes it really hard for me to argue against this, doesn't it? Saying I'm not aware of coming across that way.

Where in this post have I not emphasized that I see no difference in value between men and women?

Is it because I question the inherent superiority of all things male back in the stone age? Or because I pointed at men's own self-control in the prostitution thread?
Because that's not man-hating, I think.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, June 1, 2007 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by redhead:
Okay, sansmercy's rude, unpleasant, and childish. But, I still think she has the right to her opinion and that it shouldn't be squelched.

I just went back and read posts that I missed originally here. I think you're absolutely right Redhead. This is censorship and it's bullshit. Though I don't agree with everything she said, I feel she made some good points. Obviously Whedonesque is not opposed to censorship and shutting down anyone who would dare speak ill of Joss. I would hope, after watching Firefly and loving it, that Joss would not approve of such practices. If he approves of this censorship, even if it's censorship of someone who doesn't like what he has to say, he's lost any respect I have for him.

I wouldn't post here if I was censored.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

KAYLEEWANNABEE

Friday, June 1, 2007 2:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by redhead:
Okay, sansmercy's rude, unpleasant, and childish. But, I still think she has the right to her opinion and that it shouldn't be squelched.

I just went back and read posts that I missed originally here. I think you're absolutely right Redhead. This is censorship and it's bullshit.

To be precise, this isn't censorship. Censorship can only be carried out by government agents through the use of force ("shut up or we'll imprison or kill you.") Here's an example:
Chavez to shut down opposition TV
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6215815.stm

[To return briefly to the previous topic, I predict that the next genocide will take place in Venezuela...the country imported 100,000 AK-47 military assault rifles from Russia, is building its own AK-47 plant, is systematically shutting down opposition media, and last year, announced a sweeping plan to disarm the populace to "reduce crime." Private ownership of guns is illegal in Venezuela...and yet Venezuela has the highest rate of gun deaths in the world. Since any policy analyst with a brain knows that gun control causes crime to increase, there must be another reason why Hugo Chavez doesn't want his "subjects" to have guns. Wonder what that is...
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1999]

The owners/operators/people paying for Wheadonesque.com have no obligation to give anyone a free platform from which to spew venom. This sansmercy person is free to pay for his/her own website/blog/sandwich board/bullhorn and espouse whatever views he/she wants, and no one from Wheadonesque.com can stop him/her without committing physical assault.

In other words, you can say whatever you want, but no private individual is obligated to furnish you with a stage and a sound system.

-----
It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

KAYLEEWANNABEE

Friday, June 1, 2007 3:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Kayleewannabee -

42, huh? I'm probably not the first to say it, but you come off as much younger than that... not that 42 is old or anything.

I'm continually suprised to find that my age starts with a "4". But since my parents have never grown up, I feel no obligation to do so myself.

And most of the people I know assume me to be in my mid-30s. I allow them to believe that...hee hee hee.

Quote:

Have you got any like-minded daughters, in case our age differneces prove to be too much for our love to blossom? It would be a shame if you didn't. I think a woman with your views on life and the world should pass that on to future generations.

You're sooo good for my ego.

No, I can't have kids. I'm an evolutionary dead end. Probably the main reason I never got married...most guys are interested in creating little versions of themselves. Or at least practicing to do so.

Quote:
I know what you're saying about changing your mind about guns and gun ownership....I got stabbed in the back and nearly had my life beaten out of me that I changed my views myself.

That's what I meant about fantasy vs. reality. In my mental fantasy world, "gun control" sounded like a great idea. But in reality, the only way it could work would have to involve the application of magical powers that would cause all guns everywhere to disintegrate when the law was passed.

Quote:
Did you ever give that story a look yet?

Not yet...spending too much time writing posts.

-----
It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

REDHEAD

Friday, June 1, 2007 3:22 PM

Okay, I have to confess to an irrational prejudice in Sansmercy's favor. Anyone who references Spencer's The Fairy Queene deserves a bit of a break.

Seriously, KayleeW, you are right that

Quote:
no private individual is obligated to furnish you with a stage and a sound system.

.

But, while no site is obligated to provide Sansmercy or any other individual with a place to sound off, nonetheless, giving her a place to vent and responding in a reasoned manner is more likely to change both her behavior and her mind than shutting her off. And , I would like to think that Joss Whedon fans are capable of listening, taking a deep breath, and then kindly trying to help her express herself less hurtfully. The world would be a better place if every verbal outburst was treated calmly and sensibly.

I don't like what she said, I don't like how she said it, and I understand the frustration of the site moderator. However, unless Sansmercy repeatedly made personal attacks, the danger of suppressing opposing viewpoints is such that I do not think she should have been shut down-- for if we are Sansdissent then we are Sansfreedom.

KAYLEEWANNABEE

Friday, June 1, 2007 3:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by redhead:
Okay, I have to confess to an irrational prejudice in Sansmercy's favor. Anyone who references Spencer's The Fairy Queene deserves a bit of a break.

Seriously, KayleeW, you are right that
Quote:
no private individual is obligated to furnish you with a stage and a sound system.
.

However, unless Sansmercy repeatedly made personal attacks, the danger of suppressing opposing viewpoints is such that I do not think she should have been shut down-- for if we are Sansdissent then we are Sansfreedom.

I liken this situation to throwing a party at my house. Some friends show up and bring along some other folks, and one of them gets all abusive and nasty. Now, I've had everyone over so we can all have a good time and enjoy each other's company, but here's a loudmouth that's making people uncomfortable and causing a scene. In short, she is the Anti-Party. I've spent all this time cleaning the house, and spent a lot of money on cocktail weenies and filing the bathtub with gin. But my guests are leaving because one person is being vicious, even after having been warned that her behavior is inappropriate. Now as the party host, my loyalty is to my well-behaved friends, not the boor. The boor gets put out on the street if she can't behave herself.

She can stay if she can express her opinions in a civil manner...otherwise, she's welcome to find another place to start a bar fight.

That's how I see it...not a free speech issue, but a rudeness issue.

P.S. I'm a redhead too...and we definitely have more fun.

-----
It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

REDHEAD

Friday, June 1, 2007 4:19 PM

I would have to agree that I would put the vicious drunk out but...Only after having attempted several times to talk her down.

Don't get me wrong. I am a huge fan of Whendonesque and a good part of this is because of the quality of discourse. Perhaps I am unaware of some previous behaviour issues on Samsmercy's part and the 2 posts she did on Whedon's thread left me angry at her self-righteousness and willingness to jump on Whedon without taking the time to even fully comprehend his post. However, she also had some valid points. She had a different take on the blog than most and I felt cheated that she was thrown off so quickly. So, IMHO, vicious drunk would be out but only after repeated attempts to feed her warm milk of human kindness and listen to her woes. Maybe a some Hot Liquid of Listening and some homemade bread with a slather of common sense might settle her down.

PS. Got Freckles? Then not only do you have more fun but "A face without freckles is like a sky without stars!"
Stephen Majercik

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