Trilogies: Really necessary? Only 3?
POSTED BY: Fastmover
UPDATED: Sunday, June 17, 2007 05:12
VIEWED: 5892
PAGE 2 of 3
Quote:
Originally posted by EvilDinosaur:
Are you sure they aren't making a 4th pirates movie? I'd heard there were talks of it, and the ending of 3 definitely left it with somewhere to go.
"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."
I really hope there is, but there are a few things going against it, though they may be overcome. First off, on a positive not both Gore Verbinski and Johnny Depp say they'd love to continue the series, plus Disney is really game for it as well. However, most of the central conflict has been resolved, and unfortunately Keira Knightley has said that she wishes to move on to different projects.
Bruckheimer has said the series may continue, but as a spinoff that may not include Jack Sparrow.
HERE BE SPOILERS!!!:)X __________________________
Unfortunately I wasn't able to stick around and see the bonus scene after the credits, but apparently Will Turner sails home after 10 years for his one day on land, and there is a 'green flash.' This supposedly indicates someone's soul returning to earth, and the writers, while it was not included in the film, have said that Will has in fact been released form the curse because of Elizabeth's love.
I thought in a 4th film they could have found a way to release him otherwise. Also, there could be a battle over the Fountain of Youth when Jack tries to find it. Jack could go back to fighting Barbossa perhaps, or Will could still be immortal, but Elizabeth not, so he must fight Jack for it to give to her.
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Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I liked POTC3 too. Expected more humour (although what was there was good) and some of it seemed a little forced.Select to view spoiler:
I also thought they ignored the bit where Chow Yun Fat hinted at Elizabeth Swann being Calypso. It never came into play later at all except for a couple of worried glances.
Overall great action, great set pieces. Although as stated it was a bit much for one film. But no where near as bad as Spidey 3.
To me the 'tradition' of making a trilogy is a more recent development.
For example:
The first Matrix did very well. The makers said that they always planned it as a trilogy (yeah right) and then they bolluxed the next two up.
Spider-Man was 'supposed' to have been set out as a trilogy from the start, but only Harry's arc really continues and you can't count Peter Parker as all the films are about him.
X-Men was the same. First one hit big so they say they are doing a trilogy, and they know they have interest for two more films. After that.....
I don't think film series based on books can count as 'planned trilogys', they just go as far as they can with the source material. The makers of LOTR went with three films coz of three books. JK Rowling said there would be seven Potter books so it stands that there will be seven films.
Film makers will always go as far as they can.
That's why we have Rocky 6, Rambo 4, Die Hard 4, Indy 4, Beverly Hills Cop 4 either out or on the way. They are just trying to recapture past glory and make more money (yes, even Indy 4).
I really wish they'd leave them alone after this amount of time, and I'm a big Indy fan and don't want to see it ruined.Quote:
As far as I know there's only been a couple truly successful movie series that are more than a trilogy. One is Star Wars, and the other is Harry Potter
You could add the Bond and Star Trek movies to the list as well. Although they are stanalone movies and not 'true sequels'.
Going on that idea then Star Wars is made up of two trilogys. The first dealing with Anakins story, the second with Luke. Therefore they haven't been successful beyond the three film marker. (Being a bit picky there).
At least nobody has made 'ET 2: Armed And Dangerous' or 'ET 3: Back With A Vengeance' or 'Titanic: The Poseidon Adventure 3' or 'More Usual Suspects' or 'The Usual Suspects Again".
Well, not yet......
"If I hear voices and someone is really there, does that mean I'm going REALLY crazy?"
I felt the Davy Jones character arc was a bit forced. I understand what happens is an important part of the plot, but I really liked the character for some twisted reason, actually feeling sympathy for him a couple times, and felt his evolution to possess more humanity was a bit rushed.
I agree with you, though, that I'd rather have them move on from some series. Indiana Jones sounds exciting, as I'm also a big fan, but I hope they don't overdo it as they do so often these days. Sometimes it's just better to leave a good thing alone. I'm thinking that if they do make another Pirates film, maybe they could give it a few years so people don't get tired of it too quickly.
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Quote:
Regarding the Lord of the Rings movies, the Hobbit is not a sequel in the truest sense of the words. It was actually written years before The Lord of the Rings, so the LOTR movies are actually a 'sequel' to the Hobbit.
I think The Hobbit is supposed to follow Bilbo's life before LOTR proper, I believe Gandalf is featured as well. What I'm wondering, though, is whether this has become somewhat of a fad. In Pirates and others a lot more emphasis is placed on introducing certain characters. Pitch Black is another example, it's the prequel to the Chronicles trilogy, which TCOR is the first. It is uncertain whether the other 2 will be made. A lot of time is spent getting to know a main character, his capabilities, his values, emotions, background etc. Not that this is a bad thing, it's good they do this, but I'm just curious. It is a bit hard for me sometimes to watch one movie, get so used to its style, and then the sequels end up completely different.
Sometimes, though, I also think that they don't necessarily have to make 3 films every time. 2 can be good enough.
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Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
To me the 'tradition' of making a trilogy is a more recent development.
The true trilogy goes back to 5th century BC Greece. A playwrite would submit 3 tragic plays, each separate works, but each developing a singular theme, to the annual theatre festival. 3 works at one time.
First time I remember it being used in modern times was Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy, originally 9 or 10 short stories, set in a common universe and building to a final climax; republished as a 3 volume book length set.- now just 3 related books.
Lord of the Rings, the books, might have been slightly before that, certainly around the same time- 3 books with a common plot, universe, characters, building to a common theme, intended as a 3 book full work.
Since then, it became a marketing tool-- " Hey ,look, 3 books/ records/ movies about the same stuff." HitchHiker's Guide ( actually 5 + 1/2 book length pieces ); Star Wars; SpiderMan, Die Hard, whatever...
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
HitchHiker's Guide ( actually 5 + 1/2 book length pieces )
I especially liked how one of them was billed on the cover as "The Fifth volume in the Increasingly-Inaccurately-Named Hitchiker's Trilogy."
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Actually, the one film trend that's more seen in independent and foreign cinema than mainstream Hollywood cinema is more of the "thematic series", where a filmmaker creates a series of films that may have one character or at least a theme that's repeated over a long period of time.
The most famous is obviously Kevin Smith and the "New Jersey Chronicles", where every movie he's done (sans JERSEY GIRL) all takes place within the Highland's area of New Jersey and have characters constantly reference other characters that were in other movies, with Jay and Silent Bob being the only recurring characters in each movie. Of all of those, only CLERKS II is a direct sequel to CLERKS. So it's more of a thematic series, as opposed to a Part 6. The only other time an independent American filmmaker has done something similar to that (which I know of), is Richard Linklater with BEFORE SUNRISE and BEFORE SUNSET. The former came out in 95, the latter in 04.
In Europe, there's been numerous film series or sagas that span decades that you wouldn't necessarily call franchises. The most famous is Francois Truffaut's Antoine Doinel series. Began with THE 400 BLOWS with Antoine as a kid, and then continues over the decades with STOLEN KISSES, BED AND BOARD and LOVE ON THE RUN. I highly doubt that some studio head in France was pestering Truffaut with "Frankie, the flick's a hit. Come down Monday morning and get your check for the sequel. Gotta get moving for that Bastille Day weekend!!"
And that's just scratching the surface. If you follow the link below, you can find plenty of Criterion Collection box sets of various sagas and trilogies that are more thematic than franchiseable. So I guess the idea of film series and trilogies aren't just limited to blockbusters.
http://www.criterion.com/asp/browse.asp
I guess the different between a continuation and a sequel is that a sequel is partially done for money.
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Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:Select to view spoiler:
I also thought they ignored the bit where Chow Yun Fat hinted at Elizabeth Swann being Calypso. It never came into play later at all except for a couple of worried glances.
Select to view spoiler:
That's becuase Elizabeth wasn't calypso. Calypso was the medicine woman. Remember her getting all large and making the maelstrom in the ocean? I think Chow Yun's line about Elizabeth was just to throw the audience off.
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To Whisper:
Select to view spoiler:
That's becuase Elizabeth wasn't calypso. Calypso was the medicine woman. Remember her getting all large and making the maelstrom in the ocean? I think Chow Yun's line about Elizabeth was just to throw the audience off.
The reply
Select to view spoiler:
Obviously I got that Elizabeth wasn't Calypso (and never thought she was), but the point I was referring to was later on when they are in the battle and they are talking about freeing Calypso from Tia Dalma.
Elizabeth must be at least suspicious of what Chow Yun Fat told her earlier, he seemed certain after all.
And then the pirates say they are going to free Calypso. Wouldn't you be a little worried about what they were going to do, if you had even the slightest thought that it MIGHT be you.
And when you do know for certain there's still nothing from her.
I would have settled for a 'Phew it's not me' type comment when they picked Tia Dalma, but there was nothing. Not even a relieved look from her.
Oh well. Maybe it'll be clearer on a second viewing. Things go by so quickly on a cinema screen.
To Fastmover:
Yeah I liked Davy Jones too, and I felt sorry for him. It was a nice moment when he was next to the brig (not gonna say anymore, you'll know the bit I mean).
And back onto the original topic:
I've always liked 'thematic series'. Kevin Smiths stuff is a stand out example.
If Tarantino had directed all the films he's scripted it would have been similiar.
Alabama from True Romance is mentioned in Reservoir Dogs. Mr. Blondes (Vic Vega) parole officer (Scagnetti???) is in Natural Born Killers. Vic Vega in Reservoir Dogs is Vincent Vegas (Pulp Fiction) brother.
There are probably more.
"If I hear voices and someone is really there, does that mean I'm going REALLY crazy?"
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As to a fourth movie: According to the writers of all three (Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio), while no one is ruling out any further installments, none are on the drawing boards right now. No one is contracted for any more, nor have the writers been asked to come up with any ideas. Add to that the reports that the stress of doing these 2 back-to-back nearly killed Gore Verbinsky (the director), and I'm betting that they'll wait a few years before they start working on another.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
As to a fourth movie: According to the writers of all three (Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio), while no one is ruling out any further installments, none are on the drawing boards right now. No one is contracted for any more, nor have the writers been asked to come up with any ideas. Add to that the reports that the stress of doing these 2 back-to-back nearly killed Gore Verbinsky (the director), and I'm betting that they'll wait a few years before they start working on another.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
Of concern to me is the fact that Keira wishes to move on. She's honestly not my favorite character, but a lot of the fans were driven by the 'cute' coupling between her and Will. I think they could always replace her, her character, or maybe get Natalie Portman because they look so much alike they even doubled for each other in The Phantom Menace.
Interestingly Verbinski is aware that Disney wishes to continue the series, so maybe he just needs a couple years of rest and then he can come back to it. Depp wants to do another trilogy, and I'm not sure I'd like a spinoff without him. Not sure about the rest of the characters, but I'm sure if the story was completely new they would need new characters. I just hope Gibbs returns because he was really cool, and I liked his warm, fatherly figure among the treachery of the pirates.
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