Joss Post at Whedonesque

POSTED BY: FireflyPassenger
UPDATED: Monday, June 11, 2007 08:49
VIEWED: 40107
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LEXIBLOCK

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:55 AM

His thread over there and here, does nothing to covert me to anything - I find it unplesant, its like religious fanaticism. Sure its not about the usual supernatural being, but the fanaticism lurks there. Violence is wrong, the gender is irrelevant - and nobody is less equal that the human race.

CERES

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:21 PM

But isn't that his point? That it's obvious, in much of the world, gender does make a diffence and he's trying hard to understand why.

.............................

You can question the meaning of life on a floaty
island of your own for a while.

SCHMOE

Thursday, May 24, 2007 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lexiblock:
His thread over there and here, does nothing to covert me to anything - I find it unplesant, its like religious fanaticism.

Quote:
Originally posted by ceres:
But isn't that his point? That it's obvious, in much of the world, gender does make a diffence and he's trying hard to understand why.

I have to agree with Lexi, I wouldn't express it the same way, but in my mind, Joss's thoughts represent overly simplistic thinking.

Everyone tends to solve problems differently, but I don't think anything gets resolved in a constructive manner when we resort to victimology, or trying to ascribe victims to a “class”. We almost always get side-tracked with feelings of guilt that cause our response to become emotionally disproportionate with whatever it is we are trying to correct.

That being said, bigotry of any variety is wrong, but everything needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis and not an assumption derived from personal reflection. As Lexi said "violence is wrong". Violence between races, genders, whatever, is wrong and is also entirely equivalent. It is impossible to live in a society of equality when one considers violence disproportionate when based on different genders or race, etc.

Anyway, back to my proportionality argument, his whole train-of-thought would eventually lead to overcompensation. Generally speaking that is why I have a big problem with "advocacy" groups -- I don't care if we're talking pro life/choice or any other realm of argument. The groups can take an issue that isn't morally ambiguous and tarnish it by reflexively trying to combat an opposing force (when the opposing force logically shouldn’t be related). Another problem is that those emotionally attached to their issues tend to become locked in all sort of logical pitfalls.

For example, many women in the mid-east are content with their situation (conversely many are not). There is a logical problem -- either we respect others, and how they think, or we admit we are culturally superior and feel it necessary to impress our beliefs upon others. This is mutually exclusive. One has no need to argue with another unless they are convinced the other’s choices were in error.

The perpetrators involved in this middle-east incident need to spend a lifetime in prison, but unfortunately I don't think that the circumstances that created the incident can be addressed. Action causes resentment, and I hate to admit, but resentment is a powerful motivator for hurting others. And perhaps I'm being a little selfish here, but I'm not so noble as being willing to die for someone else's cause. And unfortunately that’s the broader world we live in -- we’ve reached a time when the death of others is a seemingly rational response to an otherwise philosophical disagreement.

If someone can figure out how to solve the problem of resentment without creating even more resentment... Well, they would deserve a lifetime supply of Nobel Peace Prizes.

Granted all of you may disagree. But that’s the beauty of the situation... I really couldn’t care less if you do, thus I don’t harbor any resentment to anyone who thinks differently.

QUANDOM

Thursday, May 24, 2007 5:42 AM

The problem is with Islamic civilization, not men. The treatment of this unfortunate woman would have been unthinkable one thousand years ago in Christian Europe - it was and is typical of Arab and the successor Turkish empires' culture. The Men of the West owe no apologies, but I hope we can all agree that whatever contributions it has made to the arts, the Muslim world is morally degenerate. In the coming clash of civilizations, I require from Whedon and every man living - which side are you on? I bid you stand, Men of the West!

LITTLEALBATROSS

Thursday, May 24, 2007 5:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by quandom:
The problem is with Islamic civilization, not men. The treatment of this unfortunate woman would have been unthinkable one thousand years ago in Christian Europe - it was and is typical of Arab and the successor Turkish empires' culture. The Men of the West owe no apologies, but I hope we can all agree that whatever contributions it has made to the arts, the Muslim world is morally degenerate. In the coming clash of civilizations, I require from Whedon and every man living - which side are you on? I bid you stand, Men of the West!

Either I'm completely missing the sarcasm here or something because if you're seriously claiming that there is no gender-based violence in the Western world than I have to ask which rock you've been hiding under.

And no, we cannot all agree that the Muslim world is morally degenerate.

REDHEAD

Thursday, May 24, 2007 6:04 AM

Did I miss something or are you, Quandom, really condemning a whole civilization? There are aspects of some Islamic cultures (it is not a monolithic culture as Christianity is not monolithic) I abhor. However, there are aspects of my own culture, I also abhor.

Quote:
The treatment of this unfortunate woman would have been unthinkable one thousand years ago in Christian Europe -

.

Please don't forget the burning of Joan of Arc among many other unfortunate women.

I am sure you didn't realize but you sound as intolerant as those you condemn.

Be intolerant of cruelty but not of entire civilizations. I understand your outrage. I feel it myself but please don't direct it at a whole people--for their opinions may be no more of one cloth than yours and mine

BORIS

Thursday, May 24, 2007 6:23 AM

Its good to know that people are so disturbed about human injustice they want to speak out or act against it ... But not only women are treated badly, people with disabilities or from diverse racial backgrounds, children, gay people...people from minorities in general, are subjected to equally unspeakable acts,and this happens in western countries as well. Sadly there are plenty of women who either instigate or allow such behavior, you cannot blame it all on men. (I am a woman that has worked in community services for years so I have seen the things I am talking about)Unfortunately those of us who know this behaviour is wrong, are also a minority.

Rose and boris

BORIS

Thursday, May 24, 2007 6:30 AM

In response to the anti islamic rant, and please exscuse any unintentional agression: Ugh!What history accounts have you read? or have you just chosen to be selective. Violent things happened to Christian women, and still do, but because Christianity is part of Western culture, it,s not as widely reported...take your blinkers off!!! Read more widely, be better informed step away from your safety net and see what is happening right in front of you, and then be someone who stands up and helps! dont just rant maniacally about things you dont understand

CROW

Thursday, May 24, 2007 12:35 PM

Oh yes, that wee little gendercide the burning of the witches was carried out by Martians??? Lowest estimates 50,000 dead (populations were rather smaller during those centuries) - highest estimate 9 million burned alive - discrepancies like that speak volumes to me...

SAHARA

Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:40 PM

Joss' post was mentioned on Defamer.com yesterday.

http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/short-ends/

Sahara
Blackbird fly into the light of the dark, black night.

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