pretentious, chest-pounding, protecting the damsel-in-distress, woman-protecting, hero of Canton speeches
POSTED BY: leadb
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 22:34
VIEWED: 21233
PAGE 9 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Did you by any chance read the link I appended above?
Yes. And it talks about knights. Hence the questions.
I also object to some of the specifics, but I suspect I'm in the minority with regards to ideas such as loyalty, justice and patriotism, so I'll leave it at that.
I'll ask it again, because I don't think you really answered it: would you call a woman chivalrous if she acted according to that code? Because I don't think the word chivalry applies for women, not really, given its historical roots (which I admit I may be overly-focused on).
---
"If I were a Nazi, someone would defend my constitutional right to hate Jews. If I were a Klansman, someone would defend my rights to hate blacks. It's a funny place, this world. Hate has rights. Love has none." - Jeff, Murphy's Boy
Yes, a female who acts and believes in accordance with that set of ideals would be chivalrous, to me.
'Old code' chivalry was in equal parts a response to Christian ideals (protect the weak, fight for justice, be generous, et cetera), the society of the time (i.e., the lack of female knights was a reflection of women's roles during that era), and the threats associated with Islamic expansion into Europe (i.e., kill the Infidels without mercy; remember, Vlad Drăculea is still a hero in Romania for having virtually singlehandedly stanched the flow of the Ottoman Empire into southeast Europe, c. 1450 A.D., albeit by gruesome means).
So, subtract the antiquated social mores and the justifiable xenophobia of the times, and one is left with the behavioral ideals. You read it, you figure out which ones are which.
While it is true that those who do not remember the past are doomed to relive it, I hold that it is also true that those who dwell on the past will never escape it... But, to each their own.
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
...I have since stated in every possible way I know how -- and given prime examples, mind you -- that 'IQ' is worthless in and of itself. First, it only measures potential, not actualization. Second, if you've got a 'high IQ', it's more likely to turn you into a pariah or skid row alcoholic than a prince/ss of the universe.
So, to recap:
'IQ' = worthless
Myers-Briggs type = very useful tool in gaining knowledge of yourself = wisdom (hopefully)
Wisdom = only game worth playing (a.k.a., "The Meaning of Life")
Respectfully,
zoid
Just curious if you thought I had in someway disagreed with you? If any thing, I would have said I was agreeing with you. I even would have accepted have been doing my own bit of chest pound ing in my own subtle way ;-)
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So, I guess I'm the odd-one-out for thinking that chivalry is a package deal (it's comparable to taking away the idea of Jesus from Christianity, I think), or for even caring that the word is generally imprecise. It's cool.
Quote:
While it is true that those who do not remember the past are doomed to relive it, I hold that it is also true that those who dwell on the past will never escape it... But, to each their own.
Ah, but which is worse... forgetting it all together (and thus repeating actions which were easily preventable), or dwelling in the past and never being able to move forward? Hmm.
---
"If I were a Nazi, someone would defend my constitutional right to hate Jews. If I were a Klansman, someone would defend my rights to hate blacks. It's a funny place, this world. Hate has rights. Love has none." - Jeff, Murphy's Boy
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leadb asked:
Quote:
Just curious if you thought I had in someway disagreed with you? If any thing, I would have said I was agreeing with you. I even would have accepted have been doing my own bit of chest pounding in my own subtle way ;-)
Well, Khyron and Constance seemed to be...fixating?...on IQ, and you responded in kind. So, since I was able to capture the essence of all three posts in quotes, encapsulating this entire sub-theme *cough* of the thread, I responded to all three of y'all in go...
I was only trying to steer people away from IQ and back onto MBTI, as originally suggested by the thread initiator (*psst! that would be you!*). The only thing I said about IQ throughout the thread was that it was useless. It's like saying, "I wear a size sixteen triple-e shoe. Someday I'll be a legendary baller in the NBA!" It doesn't equate to anything meaningful (except, 'it's gonna be hard to stay supplied with proper socks').
MBTI, though, gives you an idea of how to develop a meaningful relationship with the society around you. One can work on accentuating the positive and neutralizing the negative tendencies inherent within their individual personality. Everyone should take the test, wouldn't you agree? ...And then tell us what their type is and how they feel about chivalry, door holding, flat tire fixing, medical assistance from persons of the opposite sex, et cetera...
I do have a question of my own, to those females who say that A Man holding a door open for them is insulting/degrading to their integrity as a human being:
Uhhh... What?!?
(Sorry, had a caveman moment there)
...If a another woman held the door for you, would you tell them to "f*ck off" (as one respondent put it) "I don't need you to hold the door for me! I am my own person!" ?
...If you did tell her to...perform a copulatory act on herself... and a.) the ambulance left the hospital en route to your location traveling at 55 mph, while b.) the police cruiser was traveling 5 additional miles but doing 95 mph (because it was being driven by A Man with typical disregard for pedestrian safety), which one would arrive first to attempt to resuscitate your lifeless body?
Just curious, y'all...
Transactionally,
zoid
P.S.
Or would you just let her hold the door, and then have sex with her?
_________________________________________________
"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'
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Ah, got it. thx for the explanation. A couple fine points...
Zoid "MBTI, though, gives you an idea of how to develop a meaningful relationship with the society around you. One can work on accentuating the positive and neutralizing the negative tendencies inherent within their individual personality."
One can. The trick is to identify positive, negative; and then to survive the result.
"Everyone should take the test, wouldn't you agree?"
No... I try not to should on people. I would agree it is a reasonable idea, and folks might find value in it.
"...And then tell us what their type is"
only if they feel comfortable so doing.
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Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Ah, got it. thx for the explanation. A couple fine points...
"Everyone should take the test, wouldn't you agree?"
No... I try not to should on people. I would agree it is a reasonable idea, and folks might find value in it.
"...And then tell us what their type is"
only if they feel comfortable so doing.
I was joking. This would have been a good place to use some of those emoti-thingies, huh?
I thought the list of improbables following "and then tell us what their type is and how they feel about" made it obvious. There I go, jumping to conclusions again...
Tiredly, And Going To Bed-edly In An Entirely Adverbal Way,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"I aim to !YAWN! *scuse me* misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, sorta, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'
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Quote:
Originally posted by Constance:
Im not really that conserned about the fundamental differences between man and woman. I would just like to see everyone treated the same way, with equal opportunities and with respect. Im imto treating people as people not gender. (Yes I am a feminist and leftwing at that) So Ill never (or try to never) excuse anyones behavior with "oh MEN!" or "thats just what women are like".. Its not fair... Its not right to reduse a person to a gender stereotype.. Just as its not fair to blame ones mistakes on ones gender...
Constance
A person after my own heart! *G*
Very few things make me angry the way "I'm a guy!" or "Women shouldn't have to.." or "any red-blooded man/woman" or such phrases.
First? People. Persons. Mind.
I don't care how hormonally influenced, every independent adult is capable of controlling their base response in favor of thinking and then acting. There is always room for respect.
Gender comes later, with all its messy, shifty priorities that it might entail.
Men shouldn't hide behaind their penis and women shouldn't hide behind their supposed inability to learn something to do with dirty hands. Or whatever the going stereotype is.
And could, maybe a new topic be opened to talk about the IQ thing? Zoid and all of you seem to enjoy it well enough but it has little to do with the subject here (I know I am throwing stones in my glass house, considering my own track record.) and it takes up a lot of space here that could be used to make broad-sweeping statements about What People Should Do.. :)
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Quote:Hardly fixating on IQ, I'm fixating on your population estimate - I wanted to know why there's such a huge discrepancy between the population estimates of the test you took compared to the estimates from other tests. Your estimates would hint at 10%+ of the population being genius level, which can't be true. As Leadb said, the clue might be in the phrase "tested population", which would indicate that the test you took is a specifically-designed test that doesn't have a wide circulation, or it's a common test restricted to a smaller group (fellow air traffic controllers?) and the results given only wrt that group, or maybe it's a test you took when you were younger (different IQ tests for kids). Anyway, I did some reading and the accepted upper limit for adult IQs is around 200 using a STD 15 test, and usually the people who have IQs above that achieved that feat in IQ tests during their childhood, where much higher scores are possible.
Originally posted by zoid:
Well, Khyron and Constance seemed to be...fixating?...on IQ, and you responded in kind.
Btw, whether you or I assign any importance to IQ values is neither here nor there wrt my question...
I'm an INTJ, leaning towards INTP, according to the MBTI and the description suits me fine, however I know a number of people who took the test who aren't at all like their given profile. I'd be more enthusiastic about personality testing if it were more accurate when my friends and family try it.
Quote:I'll be done with the topic as soon as I get some clarification.
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
And could, maybe a new topic be opened to talk about the IQ thing? Zoid and all of you seem to enjoy it well enough but it has little to do with the subject here (I know I am throwing stones in my glass house, considering my own track record.) and it takes up a lot of space here that could be used to make broad-sweeping statements about What People Should Do.. :)
Questions are a burden to others. Answers are prison for oneself.
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
I was joking. This would have been a good place to use some of those emoti-thingies, huh?
I thought the list of improbables following "and then tell us what their type is and how they feel about" made it obvious. There I go, jumping to conclusions again...
This is a thread for honest and open discussion; and I am prepared to risk making a serious observation where it is not appropriate Vs the alternative.
The problem I had with your post was the smooth transition from (I still supsect 'serious') discussion of the personality types to the joking. Obviously, the comment about the speeding police officer was a joke, which I found mildly amusing, if that helps any.
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