pretentious, chest-pounding, protecting the damsel-in-distress, woman-protecting, hero of Canton speeches

POSTED BY: leadb
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 22:34
VIEWED: 21233
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RIVER6213

Monday, May 21, 2007 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
So, a woman helping you is alright, but a man helping you is not.

So what makes a man helping you more patronizing than a woman helping you?

Your own prejudice. You treat one gender as inherently bad, but expect others to treat men and women as equals. That is contradictory.

A woman helping me is a no-strings-attached situation. A guy helping me always cames with a price, and yes men are bad. I have no other evidence that suggests men are good.

-River

AGENTROUKA

Monday, May 21, 2007 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
So, a woman helping you is alright, but a man helping you is not.

So what makes a man helping you more patronizing than a woman helping you?

Your own prejudice. You treat one gender as inherently bad, but expect others to treat men and women as equals. That is contradictory.

A woman helping me is a no-strings-attached situation. A guy helping me always cames with a price, and yes men are bad. I have no other evidence that suggests men are good.

-River

By your logic, a man who has never met any strong, capable woman and instead only manipulative, weak ones is justified in considering all women weak, manipulative, incapable and unworthy of respect and treating them accordingly.

Would you sign that as your opinion? Personal experience is the only deciding factor in terms of how all members of a gender should be judged or treated? No benefit of the doubt? Innocent until proven guilty (in issues not concerning immediate personal safety)?

SAFEAT2ND

Monday, May 21, 2007 9:11 PM

See, I don't know where this is going or where it came from, but I have to agree with BC1 or anyone else (male or female) that practice politeness.

I think that if we look at everyone like they have an ulterior motive; we are just accelerating mankind down the path of Chaos to Mad Maxville. You've got to cut people some slack. Yes there are a lot of real losers out there, but there are still people that have no ulterior motive than to want a polite smile and a thank-you. That is exactly what I would give you if the rolls were reversed.

The flip side of the argument could hold true as well, in that if you held the door open for me and I accepted, would that make me less of a man? Are you holding the door because you think I'm too weak to do it myself? And what would the guys think if I let a WOMAN hold the door for me? (no, I don't actually think this way)

C'mon. We aren't Neanderthals anymore... well, most of us aren't. I relish the differences between men and women. Women have their own unique strengths and weakness. Not that they are weak by any stretch of the imagination.

I refuse to be crammed into the stereo-typical 'MAN' category. In fact I will argue vehemently with you if you do. I am more romantic than my wife (not mushy romantic either), but she is extremely more intelligent than I am. Its yin and yang, its part of nature.

Is there anything wrong with treating women with a little more courtesy? I mean after all, they bear our children, temper out tempers, and have the patience to deal with all our faults as men like burping, farting, chest thumping and “knuckle dragging.”

So when I hold the door for you, it's is just that. I'm holding the door. Accept it at face value. I've been married happily for 16yrs and I'm not looking anything more than a thank-you.

Like someone said before, I'm holding the door simply because I got there first. That and it’s the right thing to do. I’m not ready to stop being human quite yet.
*****

Back to the question at hand, should we be treated differently? Hell yes. Everyone is different and the way I deal with one person, may not work with the next regardless of gender.

I think the equality thing gets out of hand. A person should be hired for a job IF they meet the requirements for said job. As long as that happens, I don’t care really what gender you are. Are you qualified? Yep? Good enough for me. What burns my a** is the governments attitude that they have to be politically correct and hire by niche instead of whether that person is the most qualified to do the job.

_______________________________________________________________
"Got a headful of lightning
And a heart full of rain
And I know that I said
I'd never do it again
Oh and I love you sweet baby but I always take the long way home."

LEADB

Monday, May 21, 2007 9:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I don't think that there is a guy on this miserable rock we call Earth, who doesn't have some kind of hidden motive when he does something nice for a woman.

Wow. I'm clearly not going to convince you otherwise on a forum like this.

Quote:

I guess my issue here is I simply don't trust men at all. The have never given me any reason to do so; not ever.

I do hope something happens to change your mind that at lease "some" guys aren't so untrust worthy.
===

Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:
See, I don't know where this is going or where it came from

Well, it came from getting booted out of a thread, so we came here to discuss a few things. Going... perhaps no where; it's a discussion. That can happen.

I concur with most of your post; "but there are still people that have no ulterior motive than to want a polite smile and a thank-you."
I'd contend there's even folks content to pass on the polite smile and the thank-you.

"And what would the guys think if I let a WOMAN hold the door for me?"
Eh, hmmm. I'm not sure it would register and I'd think anything of it. If it did, I'd think, "how nice".

====
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SAFEAT2ND

Monday, May 21, 2007 9:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:
See, I don't know where this is going or where it came from

Well, it came from getting booted out of a thread, so we came here to discuss a few things. Going... perhaps no where; it's a discussion. That can happen.

I concur with most of your post; "but there are still people that have no ulterior motive than to want a polite smile and a thank-you."
I'd contend there's even folks content to pass on the polite smile and the thank-you.

"And what would the guys think if I let a WOMAN hold the door for me?"
Eh, hmmm. I'm not sure it would register and I'd think anything of it. If it did, I'd think, "how nice".

Ooop. I forgot to put the eyerolling smilie.

I was being facetious. I don't think that way, but I unfortunately do know some guys that do.

_______________________________________________________________
"Got a headful of lightning
And a heart full of rain
And I know that I said
I'd never do it again
Oh and I love you sweet baby but I always take the long way home."

RIVER6213

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 3:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
So, a woman helping you is alright, but a man helping you is not.

So what makes a man helping you more patronizing than a woman helping you?

Your own prejudice. You treat one gender as inherently bad, but expect others to treat men and women as equals. That is contradictory.

A woman helping me is a no-strings-attached situation. A guy helping me always cames with a price, and yes men are bad. I have no other evidence that suggests men are good.

-River

By your logic, a man who has never met any strong, capable woman and instead only manipulative, weak ones is justified in considering all women weak, manipulative, incapable and unworthy of respect and treating them accordingly.

Would you sign that as your opinion? Personal experience is the only deciding factor in terms of how all members of a gender should be judged or treated? No benefit of the doubt? Innocent until proven guilty (in issues not concerning immediate personal safety)?

This is not about logic, it's about experience and my experience with men says that they are one dimensioned, fiends, with only one mission. If a guy is being nice or kind to you it's within your best interests to find out what he really wants. Guys cannot be trusted, and never, ever turn your back on them.

Don't attempt to box me in a corner with your queries. It won't work. You cannot change my mind regarding men. I know men and all men are pigs to be gutted.

-River

13

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:38 AM

Quote:
I know men and all men are pigs to be gutted.

What about man-boys? Are we pigs yet? ('we' meaning 'me', BTB)

Q: Fish or Hogarth?
A: Marillion.

RIVER6213

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 13:
Quote:
I know men and all men are pigs to be gutted.

What about man-boys? Are we pigs yet? ('we' meaning 'me', BTB)

Q: Fish or Hogarth?
A: Marillion.

Stupid question to be asking me. You are at a going-to-hurt-some girl-in-training period, so yes, when you eventually hurt some woman because of some selfish goal, or want that you have, you will graduate to a pig to be gutted.

Being a man-to-be you are are going to be part of a legacy of ill-mannered, thoughtless creeps. Deal with it, and move on man-boy.

I am too mean and too unforgiving. I see that now. No wonder I got my ass banned from this board.

-River

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 7:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Don't attempt to box me in a corner with your queries. It won't work. You cannot change my mind regarding men. I know men and all men are pigs to be gutted.

-River

Not attempting any convincing. I was just pointing out that you are contradicting yourself and are undermining your own call for respect.

ZOID

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:27 AM

Longtime eNTP. A real fan of MBTI, since I find it more useful than IQ (154). Intelligence is more of a hindrance than a help, in my experience. It only tends to alienate. Knowing your transactional type gives the individual something to work with when trying to improve oneself (a perpetual goal to which I am motivated).

...My left hand is different from my right hand. Although they are similar in dimensions, they are in fact opposite (though not opposed, at least as far as I can tell; I've never caught them conspiring against one another when they thought I wasn't looking).

...I am right-handed. I can do more with my right hand. Other people are left-handed, and can do more with their left hand. I was involved in a motorcycle accident, now I must do more with my left hand, although I cannot do those things as well; my brain is simply not wired correctly to allow me to be successfully left-handed (6 years later, and shaving is still a bitch).

...Although my right hand and left hand are both hands, for me, my right hand is dominant or 'better'. And yet, if I had two right hands, I wouldn't be able to get anything done. Quite apart from looking more than a little odd if I had two right hands, picking up a child, hugging people (which I don't do a lot of, but when I do, it's special to me), or carrying anything would be darned near impossible.

...I'm glad I have both a right hand and a left hand. Both are required in order for me to operate according to spec. I suspect left-handed people feel exactly the same way.

...Of course, if one is truly ambidextrous (as opposed to ambidextrous by assiduous practice), this analogy may have less appeal...

Non-Sinisterly,

zoid

P.S.
I often open doors for women as a means of initiating sexual congress with them. Doesn't everybody?
_________________________________________________

"She was in Congress?" -Jayne 'Man Parts' Cobb, "Objects in Space", Firefly

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