Do You Believe the Miracles in the Bible Really Happened?
POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Friday, May 25, 2007 06:02
VIEWED: 15041
PAGE 5 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Tinadoll:
For doesn't the bible say Love thy neighbor as thyself?
Everyday miracles do happen. But in a world gone mad do you have guts enough to see them?
What a lovely way to put the "love" in christianity. Basically, say love thy neighour, and then question people in an offensive way.
Do have the "guts" to see that?
Well i did have the guts to stand by my beliefs,in the face of countless opposition
But "guts" wasn't the word i was looking for- "time" was.
Scorpion:
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Quote:You’re offended by that? Wow, you have some pretty thin skin, dotcha?
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
What a lovely way to put the "love" in christianity. Basically, say love thy neighour, and then question people in an offensive way.
Do have the "guts" to see that?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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River-
you don't think that the experience of a new internal philosophy could be freeing and inspiring enough? If enough people experience it?
It may seem obvious, but when people suddenly and actually accept the idea of selflessness and helping each other, acceptance and kindness... that sort of stuff can change lives.
That IS an alternative explanation to actual physical miracles, in terms of impact, but you keep rejecting it out of hand. You're not even trying to react to those suggestions.
So, are you even looking for answers or do you just want to hear yourself talk?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:You’re offended by that? Wow, you have some pretty thin skin, dotcha?
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
What a lovely way to put the "love" in christianity. Basically, say love thy neighour, and then question people in an offensive way.
Do have the "guts" to see that?
Well that's a fire-starter if I ever saw it...
This is a crazy planet full of thin-skinned people. It doesn't make them weak, it makes them rather thorny characters.
I wonder if miracles defy the laws of physics, or is still in line with physics but just on a level that is beyond our comprehension?
-River
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
River-
you don't think that the experience of a new internal philosophy could be freeing and inspiring enough? If enough people experience it?
It may seem obvious, but when people suddenly and actually accept the idea of selflessness and helping each other, acceptance and kindness... that sort of stuff can change lives.
That IS an alternative explanation to actual physical miracles, in terms of impact, but you keep rejecting it out of hand. You're not even trying to react to those suggestions.
So, are you even looking for answers or do you just want to hear yourself talk?
I am not rejecting anything, I'm just looking for the hole here. I'm looking for that one thing I can point at and say "aha!" and so far I'm not finding it. And also, you must mean do I want to see myself write? No, I'm on a quest, and in the process I'm interested in a good topic. My ego is not involved here.
-River
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Quote:Based on what it seems you’re looking for, it doesn’t seem likely that you’re going to find that “aha.” So I would suggest that you need to reevaluate your goals in this case. It doesn’t seem very likely that you will ever have absolute proof of the miracles described in the Bible. And if you do, it will be a revolutionary event that will completely change the world we live in. It almost seems as if you’re trying to set up Christianity to fail, and I think that is the wrong approach.
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I am not rejecting anything, I'm just looking for the hole here. I'm looking for that one thing I can point at and say "aha!" and so far I'm not finding it. And also, you must mean do I want to see myself write? No, I'm on a quest, and in the process I'm interested in a good topic. My ego is not involved here.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:Based on what it seems you’re looking for, it doesn’t seem likely that you’re going to find that “aha.” So I would suggest that you need to reevaluate your goals in this case. It doesn’t seem very likely that you will ever have absolute proof of the miracles described in the Bible. And if you do, it will be a revolutionary event that will completely change the world we live in. It almost seems as if you’re trying to set up Christianity to fail, and I think that is the wrong approach.
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I am not rejecting anything, I'm just looking for the hole here. I'm looking for that one thing I can point at and say "aha!" and so far I'm not finding it. And also, you must mean do I want to see myself write? No, I'm on a quest, and in the process I'm interested in a good topic. My ego is not involved here.
That is not an approach I'm willing to take. I have nothing against Christianity. I'm just stubbornly wanting to know about the miracle issue. Is it true or not? Did it happen or didn't it, and why if it happened in the past why not have it happen now?
-River
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
River-
you don't think that the experience of a new internal philosophy could be freeing and inspiring enough? If enough people experience it?
It may seem obvious, but when people suddenly and actually accept the idea of selflessness and helping each other, acceptance and kindness... that sort of stuff can change lives.
That IS an alternative explanation to actual physical miracles, in terms of impact, but you keep rejecting it out of hand. You're not even trying to react to those suggestions.
So, are you even looking for answers or do you just want to hear yourself talk?
I am not rejecting anything, I'm just looking for the hole here. I'm looking for that one thing I can point at and say "aha!" and so far I'm not finding it. And also, you must mean do I want to see myself write? No, I'm on a quest, and in the process I'm interested in a good topic. My ego is not involved here.
-River
I see.
I suspect that the hole you are looking for simply doesn't exist. There is no one answer because there is no way of measuring what happened in exact terms. The transcendent is by definition not within out earthly grasp. There is no proof or guarantee. Even miracles are just a manifestation we can't explain. We can't see what it ties to on the other side.
That's why it's faith and not fact or science.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I'm just trying to understand. I've read all the Jesus stuff about the miracles that Jesus performed and I had questions regarding that. It seems that no one really believes in the miracle aspect of the Christian religion. I'm just referring to the people here in this topic, but I am also thinking about the world Christian leaders. Do they not believe in these miracles themselves? If not then there is a problem in the whole Christian religion.
-River
I have a lovely book that I borrowed from my church's library. It's called The Christian Agnostic, by Leslie D Weatherhead, originally published in 1965. He was pastor for 25 years to a Methodist church in Central London, a very hi profile position.
He examines a lot of these questions very specifically, and frankly admits that many of the Methodist church's rituals and official creeds are impossible to believe in. He said, paprphrased, that he would never stand up in the pulpit and say anything that he could not believe as a rational man. In consequance, he simply did not preach on the things that he disagreed with, did not include official rituals he could not suppodt in his services.
He still found plenty of stuff to preach and write about.
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I'm just trying to understand. I've read all the Jesus stuff about the miracles that Jesus performed and I had questions regarding that. It seems that no one really believes in the miracle aspect of the Christian religion. I'm just referring to the people here in this topic, but I am also thinking about the world Christian leaders. Do they not believe in these miracles themselves? If not then there is a problem in the whole Christian religion.
-River
I have a lovely book that I borrowed from my church's library. It's called The Christian Agnostic, by Leslie D Weatherhead, originally published in 1965. He was pastor for 25 years to a Methodist church in Central London, a very hi profile position.
He examines a lot of these questions very specifically, and frankly admits that many of the Methodist church's rituals and official creeds are impossible to believe in. He said, paprphrased, that he would never stand up in the pulpit and say anything that he could not believe as a rational man. In consequance, he simply did not preach on the things that he disagreed with, did not include official rituals he could not suppodt in his services.
He still found plenty of stuff to preach and write about.
Now that's a book I would like to get my hands on! I like reading stuff like. Also I think to approach this subject matter one has to be irrational about it. From what I've been reading the the whole God, Jesus, Holy Spirits, Satan, Heaven, and Hell are not rational in the minds of man even though all of that stuff MIGHT be true which is why it might be difficult for the modern human to accept, and that's where having faith comes into the picture.
-River
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