pretentious, chest-pounding, protecting the damsel-in-distress, woman-protecting, hero of Canton speeches
POSTED BY: leadb
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 22:34
VIEWED: 21233
PAGE 2 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
If a guy opens a door for me, unless I know him I don't pass through it. [...]
You need us more than we need you. We woman rock and don't you knuckle dragger's forget that.
-River
I suspect, on the first count we'd get along well enough, I don't tend to hold doors for women I don't know. For people I don't know, yes, if their hands are full, especially if one has a hot coffee.
On your final point, I think people rock. Not sure about the whole "need more than the other"; I suppose if one is worried about the propagation of the species... in general, that does not seem to be a problem (unless you get into the Fred Small "Too many people having too many babies" aspect).
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To Browncoat1's point, I will say I don't weep for that condition. I will say it is unfortunate when one offers kindness in any form with no expectation of 'reward', and it is assumed to be anything other than that by the recipient. The world can use more kindness.
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Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
If a guy opens a door for me, unless I know him I don't pass through it. [...]
You need us more than we need you. We woman rock and don't you knuckle dragger's forget that.
-River
I suspect, on the first count we'd get along well enough, I don't tend to hold doors for women I don't know. For people I don't know, yes, if their hands are full, especially if one has a hot coffee.
On your final point, I think people rock. Not sure about the whole "need more than the other"; I suppose if one is worried about the propagation of the species... in general, that does not seem to be a problem (unless you get into the Fred Small "Too many people having too many babies" aspect).
--
To Browncoat1's point, I will say I don't weep for that condition. I will say it is unfortunate when one offers kindness in any form with no expectation of 'reward', and it is assumed to be anything other than that by the recipient. The world can use more kindness.
When a man is "nice" to a woman she will ALWAYS have to suspect his motives. That is just a modern day reality.
When a guy openly voices his treatment of woman as being respectful, or gentlemanly, in my opinion that's a red flag because a person that genuinely acts gentlemanly should have no need to let everyone around him know.
-River
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
When a man is "nice" to a woman she will ALWAYS have to suspect his motives. That is just a modern day reality.
What if a woman is nice to you? Do you react the same way? And what do you consider "nice" and what is nice? Is the treshhold different with men and women? Why?
What motives do you suspect in a man holding open a door for you that a woman wouldn't have?
Quote:
When a guy openly voices his treatment of woman as being respectful, or gentlemanly, in my opinion that's a red flag because a person that genuinely acts gentlemanly should have no need to let everyone around him know.
How often do men unmotivatedly and publically proclaim that they generally act gentlemanly toward women? I'm kind of confused where you're taking this from.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
--
When a man is "nice" to a woman she will ALWAYS have to suspect his motives. That is just a modern day reality.
When a guy openly voices his treatment of woman as being respectful, or gentlemanly, in my opinion that's a red flag because a person that genuinely acts gentlemanly should have no need to let everyone around him know.
-River
"ALAYS have to suspect his motives..."
Yeh, sadly, I agree with you... in the sense that you should not "trust him" (or her, for that matter). On the other hand, "for internal voice" I tend to give the person the benefit of the doubt: Ie: I don't assume they are "poorly motivated"; but yet don't trust based on it. I know, it sounds contradictory, but there's important reasons to reflect this way.
Regarding the gentlemenly thing; mostly yes. If I hold the door, if the lady is clearly not comfortable, I don't make a fuss about it, I just go, and don't look back (well, other than to make sure that horrible clunking sound wasn't her getting knocked off her feet by the door (kidding, well mostly)). If you are referencing Browncoat1 above, we are in a "discussion mode" about things we think and feel; and I'd take this conversation to be a statement of things we might not normally state in a standard social interaction.
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I try to be polite to everyone. Ma'am, miss & sir are frequently used parts of my vocabulary. I address people by their surname (if I know it) unless they ask me not to. I don't generally speak to people I don't know unless they address me first.
I open doors for people if we happen to reach them at close to the same time, or if they are coming towards a door that I want to pass through in the opposite direction.
If a man holding the door upsets you, think of it as a traffic flow solution. He's already come to a stop, and the obstruction (door) removed from your path. Just walk on through without breaking stride. It makes getting through the doorway faster for everyone.
I'm confused on the 'suspecting his motives' part. If nothing other than, "Thank you" (or less) comes out of your mouth when someone holds the door, what is the potential harm? If he tries chatting you up then yes, you may have to shut him down but otherwise, I don't see the issue (perhaps that simply proves I'm from an older school).
I do admit to being privately amused (as in I may grin, just a bit, though I try to avoid even that much of a display) when my wife warns me, without any strain in her voice, that a box she is handing me is heavy. That's just her being polite.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
It is a shame that some people see chivalry as men being "idiots". My mother raised me be polite and kind to women, to treat them as the fairer sex. Note I did NOT say "weaker" sex. I respect and admire women and as a Southern male I was raised to be a gentleman in all respects when dealing with a woman.
Yes, I hold doors for a woman, I will help her carry packages, help her pick things up if she drops them, etc. It is not because I think a woman is "weak", needs my help, or is somehow incapable of doing things for herself, rather it is because I was raised to respect and revere women.
It is a shame that some women would feel I am "patronizing" them as that is not the intention. I weep for a world where a man is chivalrous and is found to be "idiotic".
I don't see why it has to be a "shame." Did it occur to you how patronizing the so-call chivalrous man is? He thinks that his actions of kindness and gentleman like behavior should be given a special name "Chivalry." Did it occur to you that some women don't like that garbage?
If my car broke down on the side of the road the last thing I would think of is to call a man to help me. I am able to help myself. If another car stopped on the side of the road and it was a man wanting to give me a helping hand, I'd tell him to take a hike. If I want help from a man I would ask for it. I hate when men try to force their help on me and then get their feelings hurt when I tell them to fuck off. It's like guys think every body fucking needs them; what egos!
Your problem is that you were brain-washed into thinking that we woman need your help, and adding the word "shame" to it all just because I don't agree with your prime-directive, brain-washing.
Chivalrous indeed! He has to have a special name for it. We women can take care of ourselves and don't need a chivalrous guy hanging around trying to be Superman.
-River
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
When a man is "nice" to a woman she will ALWAYS have to suspect his motives. That is just a modern day reality.
What if a woman is nice to you? Do you react the same way? And what do you consider "nice" and what is nice? Is the treshhold different with men and women? Why?
What motives do you suspect in a man holding open a door for you that a woman wouldn't have?Quote:
When a guy openly voices his treatment of woman as being respectful, or gentlemanly, in my opinion that's a red flag because a person that genuinely acts gentlemanly should have no need to let everyone around him know.
How often do men unmotivatedly and publically proclaim that they generally act gentlemanly toward women? I'm kind of confused where you're taking this from.
If I don't know the male clown who is holding a door open for me I deny him his little "chivalrous" moment just to let him know that what I think he's doing is patronizing. If a woman held a door open for me it would not matter if I knew her or not. Her act is a no-strings-attached human moment, and I would walk through that door without thinking anything about it.
I don't think that there is a guy on this miserable rock we call Earth, who doesn't have some kind of hidden motive when he does something nice for a woman.
I guess my issue here is I simply don't trust men at all. The have never given me any reason to do so; not ever.
-River
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I don't think that there is a guy on this miserable rock we call Earth, who doesn't have some kind of hidden motive when he does something nice for a woman.
I guess my issue here is I simply don't trust men at all. The have never given me any reason to do so; not ever.
So, you're admitting that the actual issue you have is you.
That's a good place to start.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I don't think that there is a guy on this miserable rock we call Earth, who doesn't have some kind of hidden motive when he does something nice for a woman.
I guess my issue here is I simply don't trust men at all. The have never given me any reason to do so; not ever.
So, you're admitting that the actual issue you have is you.
That's a good place to start.
Sure I do, but I'm not the only one, so this isn't about me. I just don't like being patronized, and men are really in the the big patronization act. You see it everywhere. You see in in board meetings, you see it in stores. It's everywhere. I long ago figured out that I can't stop it from happening, but I can stop it from happening to ME, so I'm a total rude bitch when a guy comes along and decides to be a knight in shiny armor, or a Superman. It gets under my skin.
-River
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So, a woman helping you is alright, but a man helping you is not.
So what makes a man helping you more patronizing than a woman helping you?
Your own prejudice. You treat one gender as inherently bad, but expect others to treat men and women as equals. That is contradictory.
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