Sci-Fi Spaceship Aerodynamics
POSTED BY: cljohnston108
UPDATED: Friday, July 2, 2010 14:25
VIEWED: 13551
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
...entering an unrealistically high atmosphere.
Anyone who can use the word "inviscid" in a sentence is way smarter than me, but don't you think the "ion cloud" resided somewhere above what we generally consider the "atmosphere"?
Although the Alliance fleet didn't seem to be orbiting in the strictest sense, as it hovered directly over Mr. Universe's complex, and the Reaver fleet's attack vector was directly perpendicular to the planet's surface...
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Quote:How does a dense shell of gas remained fixed in orbit above a planet? It seems that gravity would be pulling it down while internal pressure would be forcing it out, and it would either dissipate or fall into the atmosphere. I can’t imagine it remaining fixed for any length of time.
Originally posted by cljohnston108:Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
...entering an unrealistically high atmosphere.
Anyone who can use the word "inviscid" in a sentence is way smarter than me, but don't you think the "ion cloud" resided somewhere above what we generally consider the "atmosphere"?
The earth’s ionosphere is not separate from the atmosphere as a whole. It is actually the upper most expanse of the atmosphere, sitting on top of the mesopause, but for all intents and purposes related to human biology it is essentially a vacuum. It is too thin for audible sound to propagate, it cannot be breathed and an unprotected human would quickly die of exposure and decompression. But even this thin atmosphere can be quite resistant to fast moving objects. Most meteors burn up in the ionosphere.
Compares this to what we saw in Serenity. This ion cloud was amazingly dense for sound to propagate so well, the impact of so many fast moving ships should have generated an enormous shock layer, but even more vexing is how this very dense atmosphere remained fixed above the true atmosphere, when it seems that if the ionosphere of a planet is so dense the surface pressure would need to be crushingly high to support it.
I’m not an astronomer and perhaps some of our astronomer browncoats could comment, but it seems fairly unrealistic to me.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Well Fin, may I call you Fin?, anyhow, as you say, it is an Ion cloud, which means that the cloud is electrically charged. Now, consider for a moment, just hypothetically, if the equipment that Mr. Universe has is all based on electromagnetic radiation, could it possibly be the cause for the Ion Cloud?
Or maybe the Ion cloud was artificially put there by Mr. Universe to act as a more effective radio antenna ((Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.)) Of course, there is still the issue of density as compared to propogation of sound, and this density decelerating a ship ((Fast enough to rattle it apart)). Though, the loudest part of that scene is the music, so possibly we are just underestimating the power of the sounds emitted. For example, the guns with the blue tracers I think were rapid fire railguns ((Of course this means huge amounts of power and seperate capacitor banks for the same rails to facilitate rapid fire)) and they would be very loud. I've built a tiny ((12v)) railgun on my own time and it is fairly loud, and as I said, it is EXTREMELY small. So, possibly, the atmosphere of the Ion Cloud is less dense than we would suspect.
Anyhow, just some possibilities.
"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card
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Quote:I don’t know what Mr. Universe’s technology is based on, but it does seem quite likely that electromagnetic radiation plays a part in it. All modern communication technology is based on the propagation of electromagnetic radiation. However that alone is not sufficient to be the cause of any ion cloud, not given real scientific understanding.
Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
Well Fin, may I call you Fin?, anyhow, as you say, it is an Ion cloud, which means that the cloud is electrically charged. Now, consider for a moment, just hypothetically, if the equipment that Mr. Universe has is all based on electromagnetic radiation, could it possibly be the cause for the Ion Cloud?
Quote:I suppose that’s as good a science fiction explanation as any, but if you’re looking for me to confirm the realistic plausibility of such an explanation, I just don’t see it.
Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
Or maybe the Ion cloud was artificially put there by Mr. Universe to act as a more effective radio antenna ((Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.)) Of course, there is still the issue of density as compared to propogation of sound, and this density decelerating a ship ((Fast enough to rattle it apart)). Though, the loudest part of that scene is the music, so possibly we are just underestimating the power of the sounds emitted. For example, the guns with the blue tracers I think were rapid fire railguns ((Of course this means huge amounts of power and seperate capacitor banks for the same rails to facilitate rapid fire)) and they would be very loud. I've built a tiny ((12v)) railgun on my own time and it is fairly loud, and as I said, it is EXTREMELY small. So, possibly, the atmosphere of the Ion Cloud is less dense than we would suspect.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by cljohnston108:
Here's what happens when the Enterprise-A is exposed to hypersonic airflow!
Pulsed Laser Imaging @ UQ
http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/lp/lasdiag/enterp.php
See, I knew I took Gas Dynamics for a reason. Is it sad that I completely understood what they were doing in this test?
However, thinking about Serenity a little more, I think I might now understand why she started spinning out of control in the BDM after the EMP. If the engines stall, you have no doubt supersonic flow impacting the non-rotating turbines, creating what's called a hammer shock. We're talking really high downstream pressures and a compression wave moving REALLY fast opposite the direction of flow. This could effectively spin any ship out of control. Apparently the first F-15's wing came clear off because of this.
Just a warning kids, engineering ruins you forever!
"All I got is a red guitar, three chords, and the truth...the rest is up to you"
--Bono
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Well Fin, I don't think we'll ever be able to actually test our theories beyond thought experiments due to the fact that its a movie. But, yeah, it is a good sci-fiy sorta explanation.
JPStargazer, that seems to be as good an explanation as any. I thought it was due to the one engine being EMP'd and the other still producing full thrust. Or due to the grav-boot ((I'm assuming that's really what's keeping Serenity in the air)) losing power if its run by the jet. I don't know. Your explanation seems somewhat more sound.
Now here's my question: How do the shuttles fly? Those piddly little wings wouldn't generate nearly enough lift for that sort of vehicle. And if they did, the wing loading would be so high that maneuverability would be comparable to a giant boat in an oil spill. So what do you think? Are they lifting body? Are they anti-gravity?
"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
Are they lifting body?
That'd be my guess.
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I suppose anti-gravity allows Serenity's shuttles to work that way.
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Well from that picture, it is clear that the wings have flaps and there is a rudder, so I'm guessing that's how it maneuvers in atmosphere. I'd be willing to bet that the round-on-top, flat-on-bottom shape also lends lift, but I don't know how one would control an airfoil of that geometry...oh well.
"All I got is a red guitar, three chords, and the truth...the rest is up to you"
--Bono
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(On the subject of the TARDIS)
I believe that those were wierd, gray, metallic boxes when not Chamelion-Circuit-ing?
'sides, it's not like we'd understand advanced science, is it? We can't explain how it's dimensionally trancendental above the fact that the inside is a seperate dimension. The entrance to that dimension is the problem, and the fact that we are... eh... not sure about other dimensions at the time. (We being science. Lawlz)
Anywayz, until we get a resident Time Lord... or... you know, even a chat with one, (which may take a while, where I am -- America, lawlz) we never know.
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May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.
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