What our world has become.
POSTED BY: Fremdfirma
UPDATED: Monday, June 29, 2026 21:34
VIEWED: 23018
PAGE 7 of 20
Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
The criticism of the situation was meant to be a personal affront to everybody who would've walked past Bell in that situation. "Didn't take time to appreciate the music? You're capitalism's bitch!"
I'm sorry if it's already been said, but I could only make it halfway through this thread. I didn't think the article was actually criticizing the people who passed – the conclusion says, 'Bell understands why he's not drawing a crowd, in the rush of a morning workday, but “I’m surprised at the number of people who don’t pay attention at all, as if I’m invisible. Because, you know what? I’m makin’ a lot of noise!”'
Which, you know, is fair. A lot of people didn't even LOOK UP. I'm not saying they should all have hung around and lost their jobs en masse, but a huge majority didn't even acknowledge his presence. I thought THAT was more of a statement on how we conduct ourselves socially, not that people with obligations aren't able to appreciate beauty or what have you.
Don't make faces.
http://amaranton.wordpress.com
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:When I was younger, I wanted to be a cop. Closest thing to a super-hero, I figured. Boy though, when I saw the lunkheads that WERE going to be cops from my High School, that REALLY gave me pause, most of 'em were guys that beat me up in Jr. High, before I got into martial arts.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
There is no "few rotten apples", there is no "isolated incident" - it's WHAT THEY ARE, you're just seeing them without the mask on.
Another tragic tale of wasted youth....
ChrisisallNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Marina, that's a valid point and possibly more in line with what the article was trying to say, but here are a couple of things that popped into my head in response:
i) During rush hour in an urban landscape, do you really think somebody who makes a lot of sound is uncommon enough to warrant a glance?
ii) It's possible that people are so used to street musicians that they regard their music as part of the urban soundscape and the source for it doesn't need to be found since it'll just be somebody playing the violin or whatever, not like that's such a rare sight.
iii) Why is it so necessary for people to look at a musician? Simply because it's a person playing? Because he wants to be visually acknowedged to feel he isn't wasting his time? Sure, it would be nice, but I don't look at my CD player or my speakers when music is playing in my room.
I had another thing I wanted to say but I forgot. Ah well...
Anyway, were I in that situation I would have a look (but not stop or even slow down) just to see who that fool is who wants me to give him money at that time of day.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
i) During rush hour in an urban landscape, do you really think somebody who makes a lot of sound is uncommon enough to warrant a glance?
Well, yes. Abstractly I think that's a fair question, but having watched the videos I think he warranted a glance.
Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
iii) Why is it so necessary for people to look at a musician? Simply because it's a person playing? Because he wants to be visually acknowedged to feel he isn't wasting his time?
It isn't necessary, but people tend to look at things when they're processing them. The fact that people were passing by without even looking up (even several who stood in line for the lottery and didn't remember there had been a musician) is just a vivid illustration of how closed-off we become when we enter (as you rightly put it) the urban landscape.
EDIT: It was also interesting to me that a) the people who did notice all mentioned how peaceful the music was (in contrast to the sound of the DC metro) and b) during the last piece, when a few people had stopped to listen, TONS more people looked up to check it out – people who probably would have ignored him twenty minutes earlier.
Baa-aa.
Don't make faces.
http://amaranton.wordpress.com
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
There’s no way I would have stopped. As far as glancing-I don’t know; it’s sort of an involuntary response, but I doubt I would have spent much time examining him.
First, I don’t feel any social requirement to pay panhandlers, in general. I pay a fair amount each month to local and national charities, several of which run, missions or shelters. If a street musician needed food, he could probably go to one of those shelters or get a real job.
Second, the article claims that this musician was not playing anything recognizable, which means to most people’s untrained ears, including probably my own, it sounded a lot more like noise then music. Which means it very likely wasn’t very distinguishable from background noise that most people tune out. I think most people are used to their own variety of music. Shifting between music genres generally requires time to develop an ear for it. That’s particularly true for more complex types of music, such as Jazz or classical. The same is true of fine wines. Go find someone who is not a big wine drinker and serve them a $300 bottle of fine French Bordeaux and watch how quickly they reject it.
Third, during morning rush hour, I’m concerned with one thing, and that is getting to work on time. Reading through this thread, it’s clear that some of you think I should apologize for that, but why? I like my job. Some might say I work too much, but I don’t consider hard work a bad thing.
And as far as this being what our world has come it, I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean, but in the past Americans worked even harder and cops actually policed the streets, so this guy might not have even had the chance. Basically, I sense a degree of snobbery in this thread. I guess I’m not refined enough to give a crap about some panhandler playing the fiddle. Sue me.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Did anyone read through the author's discussion comments?
Gene Weingarten: Hm. Why was the premise condescending? I can tell you honestly that the premise was nothing more than a zero-based experiment -- we had no idea how it would turn out. My suspicion was that he'd be largely ignored (though not THIS largely ignored) but other editors felt just the opposite.
I'd like to know if anyone else found the tone of this story condescending. I really tried to avoid that. Frankly, I was glad that the Kantian scholar said the results implied nothing about the sophistication of the passersby. It would have been awkward if I'd been forced to conclude that these people were Philistines, because, deep down, I didn't feel as though that was the case.
As the story said, though I DO think the results implied something disturbing about our priorities.
Your point about the children may well be on target. I wasn't implying, nor do I believe, that the children somehow sensed the quality of the music -- what they did seem to sense is that something highly unusual was happening. Regrettably, the vast majority of the adults didn't seem to see even that.
There's also some background on how they ended up with that location, etc. Thought it might be relevant, since so many people seemed offended by the article.
Don't make faces.
http://amaranton.wordpress.com
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by marina:
-- what they did seem to sense is that something highly unusual was happening. Regrettably, the vast majority of the adults didn't seem to see even that.
Unusual? What was unusual? A guy is standing around playing music, where I work there's a bunch of stoners who will literally spend 6 hours sitting outside playing drums (and pissing off the programmers) even if it's raining. What is the slightest bit unusual about a street musician? Was it that he was famous? How many of those 1000+ people could have told you who Joshua Bell was? Was it that he was playing masterpieces? How many of those people could have recognized a single song? The only reason that the people doing the study knew that the situation was unusual is because they set it up that way.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I read the whole thing, and I’m not offended by anything that was said in the article or anyone’s comments in this thread, but I do think that many of the conclusions that people are drawing, particularly the sweeping conclusions about society, reflect more a feeling of personal failings then society’s failings. The premise being put forth by some is there is something wrong with society because we don’t drop what we’re doing to listen to some violinist. Why? Aside from the fact that society can’t function if people’s attentions spans are that small, we aren’t talking about a society that is starved of culture. People listen to more music and are exposed to more culture then at any time in the history of civilization. They have more free time and pursue more hobbies, then at any time in history. I work a lot, but I also listen to a wide variety of music and take Tango lessons, so why do I need to take time away from my job to listen to a violinist? The whole premise just doesn’t make as much sense as people are trying to attribute to it.
Originally posted by marina:
Did anyone read through the author's discussion comments?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
People have more free time then at any time in history.
I'm pretty sure the opposite of that is true – do you have a particular source for this claim?
But the point of the article was illustrated in the responses of the people who hadn't stopped to listen, after they were told who he was and what he'd been playing – they were legitimately disappointed to have missed it. They didn't say, "Oh, well I hear music every day" they said "Really? Damn."
No one has to like or listen to any particular type of music – but here were people who, after the fact, regretted having rushed past (whether they had to or not). These are the people the author was writing to, people who want to be reminded to slow down. I don't think there need to be any sweeping generalizations drawn from the stunt; if you like the story, take what you will from it. If you don't care, no one will begrudge you that.
Don't make faces.
http://amaranton.wordpress.com
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:How are you pretty sure? I didn’t source anything, it’s a judgment. How do you suppose people lived their lives a hundred years ago? When I was in college I did work on a farm, and while I was only temporary help, it was clear to me that the work never ended. The people who owned that farm got up at the break of dawn and they pretty much worked until the end of the day. Visit an Amish town someday, and you’ll get an idea of what life was like, a hundred or so years ago. If you add up the number of hours that an Amish man works in a week, it is far more then 40 – it’s probably closer to 80. The idea that an old-fashioned and rural lifestyle is one of carefree back to nature stuff is a misconception of urban dwellers. It wasn’t that way at all. Not only did people work a lot more a hundred years ago, but they quite frankly did not have access to the cultural luxuries that I do. So I have a much greater potential to enjoy the free time that I have, much more so then people a hundred years ago.
Originally posted by marina:
I'm pretty sure the opposite of that is true – do you have a particular source for this claim?
Quote:I’m not sure that necessarily reflects a disappointment with having rushed to work or a disappointment at al. I think it’s just as likely that people expressed regret because that’s what they believed was expected of them, or if they did feel regret it probably had as much or more to do with the idea of the experience then with any real displeasure with their lives. And in some cases you could be and probably are right, the disappointment was legitimate. Some people are overwhelmed with their lifestyle, and most people are overwhelmed some of the time. But there is no way to draw any conclusions about society from this and there’s certainly no way to say that this is symptomatic of a social degradation.
Originally posted by marina:
But the point of the article was illustrated in the responses of the people who hadn't stopped to listen, after they were told who he was and what he'd been playing – they were legitimately disappointed to have missed it. They didn't say, "Oh, well I hear music every day" they said "Really? Damn."
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME