What our world has become.
POSTED BY: Fremdfirma
UPDATED: Monday, June 29, 2026 21:34
VIEWED: 23018
PAGE 5 of 20
I found the article interesting but misguided, like many others here I would have moved on not out of myopia or inability to appreciate beauty but rather because if I was there during rush hour I'd be going somewhere and "I stopped to appreciate some beauty" isn't going to fly with my boss unless it was a naked Jessica Alba and I took pictures for him. Also the article assumes that everyone has the same standard for "beauty" I have nothing against violins but I have no special love for them either, unlike many of the classical music snobs I don't see the violin as the be-all end-all of instruments so to me the guy playing a violin on a street corner doesn't automatically deserve more attention then the human-beatbox down the street.
On the other hand, if I had nowhere pressing to go I'd say there a better than even chance that I'd hang around for a few minutes and toss a buck or two into his case. I don't see it as a failing of society that we don't stop every time something "beautiful" happens and watch entranced until it's done.
As for the scorn in the article for parents who pulled their children away, the parents are under the same constraints that the rest of are and given the option between getting to where they need to be on time, staying with their child and letting it watch the performance and leaving their child to watch the performance while they move on I know what almost every parent is going to choose. In that situation I'd ask my kid afterwards if they liked the music and if they did I'd buy a classical CD or two and let them listen to it.
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The issue isn't whether the people were under time contraints, but SHOULD they be under such time constraints?
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Some people just don't get it. 
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My, such hostility, Agent.
There is no black/white to this, only shades of grey, there's no right or wrong answers, and the results are right here in front of you, I wanted to provoke an honest discussion, in part by putting some folk in the position of defending something they perhaps do not particularly like but see as a necessity and get them to question it, is all.
Something both you and Casual put a good bit of real thought into when you replied.
And why would you ever think I do not question my own views on it ?
And I did apologise for the mild chain yank, if you noticed.
By putting both extremes up front, and defining them, it does give us a better look at the middle ground in between, does it not ?
I do think our social values need to be re-examined, especially in light how screwed up american social consciousness is, but it's not like I have an actual answer to it, these discussions are the kind that lead to ideas of that sort.
I do think most of us 30+ folk are a bit too set in our ways to effect that kind of change, just as an opinion, but I can be as wrong as anyone.
What do YOU think, then, Agent ?
-Frem
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Quote:
Hope I'm not the one you had in mind as you tapped this out
Not usually.
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Always look upstream.
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Signym - So how do you propose city life should work without the need for precision and punctuality?
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Quote:Sig's choice of words, not mine, but yes. Wasn't that the point? People can hide behind saying "oh, we were looking at society and culture, not individuals", but ultimately people think about how they whould've reacted and it sorts them into two groups, those who would have walked past Bell and those who would have listened. Those who walked past are deemed to not be able to appreciate "beauty", and that so many walked past (at rush hour, big surprise...) is then used to fallaciously conclude that there is a larger problem in society, namely that people can't appreciate "beauty" when they come across it. I take it as a personal affront because of what Agentrouka said, the part that I quoted before.
Originally posted by rue:
'The criticism of the situation was meant to be a personal affront to everybody who would've walked past Bell in that situation. "Didn't take time to appreciate the music? You're capitalism's bitch!"'
A PERSONAL affront ?
Quote:Nothing as long as they do it properly and don't use some artificial experiment and how I would have reacted to it, and loads of others did react to it, to make half-assed conclusions about me ("can't appreciate beauty") and society ("can't appreciate beauty").
And what could possibly be wrong with looking at US culture with a critical eye?
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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I guess what made me hostile was the smugness involved.
You don't really want a balanced debate, or you might have made the effort to question both extremes - except there is only one extreme.
None of the people who said they wouldn't have stopped made judgments about the people who did/would stop, but the other way around it is implied that people are drones who - since you feel the need to make them do this - don't question their place in society and society itself.
You just question one side.
And while you say it's a grey area, something I can somewhat agree with, you clearly have a strong bias. If you have enough of an opinion to be biased in this way, why can't you offer up some suggestions about how things should be, practicably? Otherwise, you could have the courtesy to try and get the people who'll gladly make others wait to enjoy some free art question their own value system.
Quote:
What do YOU think, then, Agent ?
I think, as others here have said, that this experiment says very little that is relevant and valid, because of the timing involved. You can't expect people to ignore their committments, which during rush hour most would have had, and then make a judgment about those who didn't ignore them, regarding an issue that is entirely subjective to begin with.
It's an attention-getter of an experiment, but it's not something I can take seriously.
If you want to question the nature of people's committments, the thing that creates rush hour, then you can do it directly. But doing that would put you in the defensive position because it'd put you in a place of posing alternative suggestions. If you really can't think of any alternatives, maybe, just maybe, the current system is not just a case of artificial oppression? Maybe sometimes people just will be busy to get things done for what is not just the elite rich but each other as a society?
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I think Americans have "hurry sickness". It's part of the culture to spend your time (your life) accumulating and amassing. For many people there is no option - they work two or more jobs just to have a place to sleep and to put 'food on their family'. But for others it's a choice.
Personally I find shopping to be extraordinarily depressing, especially at malls. People are rushing all over trying to spend their way to happiness with plastic baubles and artificial colors. Did you ever look at their faces? Harried, stressed, and distant.
Maybe the answer is not how to function in a society frantic to cram in 'more', but how to create a society that is comfortable with enough.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The issue isn't whether the people were under time contraints, but SHOULD they be under such time constraints?
From 7 to 8 A.M. in the morning? Sure why not? 24/7? No but then they aren't unless they choose to be. I have to be at work by 9:30, I leave work at 6:30, before and after I choose my activities. Outside of work the only thing that I do regularly that requires a modicum of punctuality is gaming 2-3 weekends a month, other than that I can mosey around all I want and spend as much time listening to street musicians as I fell like, I see this as a decent balance.
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For those who see this as being a comment on the pace of the urban lifestyle, I think this article does so with less emotional baggage.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6614643.stm
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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