Exploring Anti-Americanism
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Monday, April 30, 2007 03:01
VIEWED: 18266
PAGE 3 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
By your own example, I'd say so.
Not a snit fit or anything, I just thought your post was exquisitely ironic.
Yep. your quote was an example of generalization as insult. No irony intended. I do like the conceit that you display in thinking you can describe all the 300 million people, with a multitude of backgrounds and beliefs, living in a country as big as all of Europe, as "ugly and hateful". Wow! A masterpiece of generalization indeed.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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One of Webb's points was that often protests over issues(e.g. against nuclear weapons) tend to focus on the American aspect of an issue (e.g. America's nuclear weapons). I think he has a point there. Many people have died as a result of the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan, and there's a weekly protest over that on the campus of my university. But many people have also died in Iraq and Afghanistan as a result of the actions of the people we're fighting against; but there's no protest against, for instance, the Mahdi Army. I find that curious. Anybody care to comment?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What ??
SignyM cites facts and you cite ---- self-hatred? Where's the connection?
That's what happens when someone is totally incapable of believing that they are anything but a perfect, shining example of what everyone else should be.
Reminds me of the parents who insist their kid is a perfect little angel, even after said little angel has rolled another kid for their lunch money.
Remember that rant about how we've divided ourselves into camps along political/ideological lines and how we don't even listen to each other any more? Yeah. That's what we're doing here.
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Quote:Only if you define "self" (ie America) as its worst qualities and then feel that you must defend them. My definition of America is about all the good things America represents, not our pervasive military presence and rank ignorance. So I'm allowed to criticize some of our bad qualities because I don't feel that's "us".
The self-hatred appears to be another unique quality about America
But I think Chris said it better than I did.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
My definition of America is about all the good things America represents, not our pervasive military presence and rank ignorance. So I'm allowed to criticize some of our bad qualities because I don't feel that's "us".
Four questions:
1) Is America's military bad as such?
2) Is America's military presence in other parts of the world bad as such?
3) What do you mean by "rank ignorance"?
4) What are the "good things"?
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Quote:That's simply that we protest the "actions taken in our name as Americans" thing IMO.
Originally posted by Causal:
but there's no protest against, for instance, the Mahdi Army. I find that curious. Anybody care to comment?
For instance, I wouldn't have protested about what Hitler was doing to Jews, I'd just join the army to help stop it. But I would protest us NOT taking action against him.
Maybe that's over-simplifying it too much; I don't know. But I do feel the trendy-ness of the anti-american (militaristic) thing in my international-like college town. When things become trendy, and little knowledge is there to back up a position that is generally acceptable, that's when the trouble starts....
BAAAAA Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:That's simply that we protest the "actions taken in our name as Americans" thing IMO.
Originally posted by Causal:
but there's no protest against, for instance, the Mahdi Army. I find that curious. Anybody care to comment?
For instance, I wouldn't have protested about what Hitler was doing to Jews, I'd just join the army to help stop it. But I would protest us NOT taking action against him.
Maybe that's over-simplifying it too much; I don't know. But I do feel the trendy-ness of the anti-american (militaristic) thing in my international-like college town. When things become trendy, and little knowledge is there to back up a position that is generally acceptable, that's when the trouble starts....
Yeah...one of the guy in my class proudly sports a "Support the Iraqi Resistance" banner on his MySpace page. Don't think he really knows what that means (and when pressed he just stammered)--I suspect he just thinks it's cool.
I get your point on the actions-taken-in-my name thing. But I'm thiking more internationally. If an American warplane intentionally dropped a bomb into a crowded market and killed 150 people, there'd be an international uproar. But just a couple of weeks ago, a car bomb exploded in a Baghdad market killing about that many. Where's the international outcry over that?
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1) Is America's military bad as such?
NO
2) Is America's military presence in other parts of the world bad as such?
DEPENDS WHY WE'RE THERE
3) What do you mean by "rank ignorance"?
DEPENDENCE ON AMERICAN NETWORK TV FOR NEWS
4) What are the "good things"?
THE DESIRE FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE; THE KINDNESS OF STRANGERS; THE PIONEER SPIRIT; THE MELTING POT OF DIVERSITY OUR COUNTRY GAINS STRENGTH FROM; APPLE PIE
My answers Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
4) What are the "good things"?
THE DESIRE FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE; THE KINDNESS OF STRANGERS; THE PIONEER SPIRIT; THE MELTING POT OF DIVERSITY OUR COUNTRY GAINS STRENGTH FROM; APPLE PIE
Don't forget comic books!
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1) Is America's military bad as such?
NO. Our military is like most other developed-nation militaries, and better than most worldwide. On the average we don't rape, plunder or sack. I don't like the way "militaries" function or the uses to which they're put, but that's a general problem and not specific to us.
2) Is America's military presence in other parts of the world bad as such?
YES, for the most part. We have no good reason to be in so many places in the world.
3) What do you mean by "rank ignorance"? Most Americans are extremely insular about other places and cultures. Looking at some of our recent discussions about guns, violent crime, mental illness, incarceration rates etc it becomes very clear that most Americans think that the whole world is pretty much like America except where it's worse.
4) What are the "good things"?
Our value of freedom. It may have gotten lost in the shuffle lately, but it changed history.
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Always look upstream.
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