What's wrong with our country, and how're you gonna fix it?

POSTED BY: Cuda
UPDATED: Thursday, December 11, 2025 19:41
VIEWED: 28394
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CUDA

Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:53 PM

I am really finding this thread facinating, thank you for all the great comments so far. I think this might be a good point to focus in on another subject.

How about healthcare?

HARDWARE

Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:06 PM

Well, since all of these political discussions seem to center around fixing what is wrong with your country, why not have people describe their perfect society?

After all, there's no sense arguing about how to get someplace you can't describe adequately. And if people's description of their personal social paradise doesn't agree, then why argue over how to turn this one to that when the desired object of perfection isn't the same? Unless of course it is just plain pig-headedness and you want to be the one to "own" "this" society.

Perhaps this might require a new thread.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:31 PM

Glad to see the sharing of opinions on politics and problems w/ the country has not sparked the usual heated debate.

Everyone seems to have some very well thought out responses on the issues.

Personally I would like to see a bit more involvement by people in the political theatre. I think that voting, educating ourselves, and knowing the issues that effect each and everyone of us. I also feel that there is a bit of fear/paranoia in matters regarding the government. People feel questioning the government or their actions could lead to "Big Brother" causing trouble for you or your family.

"The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson.

I do not think that this statement need only apply to actual bloodshed, but rather the effort and striving to insure that liberty and freedom are enjoyed by all citizens, without fear of a federal government that would infringe on those rights.

I think all of us can better our community, and by proxy, our country, if we are more involved in the community, and less self involved. Educating ourselves on issues, and what our government is doing, and how it effects the citizens of this country, not just ourselves.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

KURUKAMI

Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:57 PM

Steve580 wrote:

Quote:
Some day, I'll change the education system, if no one else does. Less math. No one needs to know how to graph an inequality; it just isn't pertinent information in everyday life. More history; I think this should be an every-year course, like English is. Social studies, then, can focus on geography, and government; two subjects sorely missed. English should focus more on reading than writing; perhaps two seperate classes are needed. And the writting they teach needs to be changed. English clas prepares you to be an English teacher; nothing more. It doesn't teach you to write business reports, or office memos, or scientific reports, or magazine articles, or novels. Not my English class, anyways. But boy, did we spend a lot fo time on poems. Damn useful stuff, that is. 'Bout as helpful as that ole' inequality graph.

Some math, though, is extremely helpful. I agree that stuff like calculus truly isn't useful unless one is likely to pursue a math-intensive career like engineering or astrophysics, but the basics of trigonometry and algebra should be learned by everyone. I know I've used them quite a bit since high school, though calculus has (thankfully) faded to just a memory.

I still think that writing (and legible handwriting!) should be emphasized -- possibly more than it is now. Having worked in secretarial positions, I can comment with authority that bad grammar, spelling, and handwriting are an absolute plague upon adults both young and old. It isn't quite as bad as the infuriating netspeak that chokes the Internet ("w0w!!1 u r 1337!!!"

), but it is nonetheless a pain in the ass.

History's great... as long as you can get competent, interesting teachers to relate the knowledge. I have my best and worst memories in history class -- both exceptionally boring, and greatly involving. Different teachers, of course.

Geography and government are two things I'd also like to see taught more. I was fortunate in that regard because my parents travelled extensively while I was young, and so my knowledge of the world's geography far exceeds that of many of my peers.

Science remains important, though I'm still mystified as to the relevance of cutting open a frog in class.

Electives are important, though... art, music, possibly literature (to split that off from English seems excessive, though). Business-world stuff -- like computer use and use of the more widespread programs (MS Office?), typing with more than two fingers, common office appliances such as fax machines and the like ("This is a copier. This is how you reload a copier machine when it runs out of paper..." "Oooooh...") would undoubtedly be useful.

One of the things, though, that I'd like to see a focus on would be critical thinking classes. That is, educating people in actually thinking rather than blindly accepting things told to them. My first experience with this was actually in college, in a class called "Darwin and Darwinism", and learning to actually think critically really woke me up to the world.

Then again, many high schools don't seem to consider allowing students to think and act for themselves a priority, instead forcing them into "societally-accepted" niches.

"Sir, I would like to gingerly point out that it is difficult for someone to be gently reassuring when they're holding three and a half feet of sharpened steel."

KURUKAMI

Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:07 PM

To add to that -- I think that students should be class-required to read newspapers and keep up with current events. While I was in college, one of the things a class of mine did was get us an inexpensive subscription to the New York Times. Reading that kept me up to date on things that were happening in the U.S. and around the world. Where I went to college, the surrounding area was relatively rural and the outside world didn't often intrude upon it... so when the class ended and I no longer read said paper on a regular basis, I quickly lost touch with what was going on.

Keeping students interested and curious about current events will decrease their apathy. And that's got to be a good thing.

"Sir, I would like to gingerly point out that it is difficult for someone to be gently reassuring when they're holding three and a half feet of sharpened steel."

CROWLEY

Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:17 PM

I would like to point out that there days many of the bigger companies pay 0% corporate taxes. Why? Because they're free to move to another country at a whim, and many poorer countries would gladly welcome the employment they bring and the income tax they could obtain from those employees, even if it would mean that they would have to accept not taxing the company itself. In addition to that the capital is safely stowed away in tax paradises like Cayman Islands.

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Crowley:
I would like to point out that there days many of the bigger companies pay 0% corporate taxes. Why? Because they're free to move to another country at a whim, and many poorer countries would gladly welcome the employment they bring and the income tax they could obtain from those employees, even if it would mean that they would have to accept not taxing the company itself. In addition to that the capital is safely stowed away in tax paradises like Cayman Islands.

Add to that the fact that many cities will do anything to entice large companies into their areas to generate jobs and the revenue new families will generate in taxes. These companies can make ludicrous demands from state governments in order to set up shop.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

RUXTON

Friday, March 12, 2004 6:50 AM

The purpose of education is to teach us to think, not to learn by rote.

One comes to truly enjoy thinking (and especially to enjoy silence). On a long trip many years ago I had no radio in my car. When I arrived, my host asked me how I could stand not having music on that long drive. I tried to explain to her that I spent my time thinking about things, and the trip was actually too short for me to think through all the items I had on my thought-agenda. She could not understand this at all. But I did the same thing on a LONG drive to Alaska a while back. No radio. For what it's worth, I find it impossible to write creatively with any music in the room.

I think the well-rounded high-school education of, say, 40-50 years ago was supposed to help us deal with whatever we might do with our lives. College would be more focused, of course, but we were supposed to have a clear idea of what we might want to do for a career by the time we entered college. And that would have had to come from our high school experiences. We were taught higher math, and some had an affinity for it. They would be led to fields that would need such things, like engineering or science. If the high-school student liked English better, he/she would be led toward teaching or similar fields of employment. So the thought, back then, was that it was necessary to experience many fields to help the student sort his early life out. From what I've read here and elsewhere, it seems the students are not taught to think at all. Can that really be so? Are we raising a generation of robots?

Personally, I liked high-school math, but had the devil of a time with it in college. I can still get a feeling for the area under some kinds of graph (integration), so I did get something out of the math. The concepts are pretty rusty now, but I was able to derive a simple formula I needed one day recently -- to my utter amazement, I might add.

I agree with several posters here that more history is needed, though I too had one of the most boring of history teachers in high school. The most successful woman I know was a history major in college. One of the more interesting fields, given as an optional class in the 1960s, was Industrial Arts. High-school students learned to work on cars, etc., and some went on to become mechanics. We also had the option of taking typing, which was one of the most useful skills I ever learned.

It occurs to me that we who participate on forums such as this string are the forerunners of a better society. By defining the problems, we have taken the first step toward solving them.

Another thing I remember was that at the family dinner table we used to discuss world events. Not much, but at least the whole family was there, no TV, no distractions, and we communicated. That seems to be a lost art.

.......Ruxton

ARAWAEN

Friday, March 12, 2004 2:47 PM

Quote:
I agree with several posters here that more history is needed, though I too had one of the most boring of history teachers in high school.

My biggest beef with history is that it is relegated to propaganda tool. I can't say this hasn't always been the case, it is written by the victors as it were, and revised as is necessary I guess.

We had one really good world history teacher in high school. She had a heart attack and so we had a substitute for close to 2 months. When the main teacher came back she taught the same section again, which was discussing America's open door policy to China. There was nothing in common between the two approaches. The substitute had presented America as totally altruistic and the main teacher had America as totally self-serving.

I also got to take some history at a Catholic seminary and it was striking how contrary it was to what I learned in high school. High school had the common peasants suffering under medieval life and being freed with the coming of the Renaissance, while the Catholic version indicated that most commoners at the end of the middle ages were freemen working low-rent farms and with the Reformation the land they were renting was seized by the wealthy and the were evicted and forced to move to the cities and work for others.

Can't say which is the correct version, but I have become very skeptical of anything claiming historical precendent.

Arawaen

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

SCIFIDO

Friday, March 12, 2004 3:58 PM

On the education discussion:

I too believe that major reform is necessary. I can't recall learning very much in high school except how to avoid getting rediculed or worse. But subject wise, there was little pay-off for studying hard since it drew the attention of the bullys.

Recently 60 Minutes ran a story indicating that there is an increasing divide between boys and girls with regard to higher education. Basically due to the Alpha Male syndrome many boys are learning from their pears that a focus on learning is too feminine. Enrollment in college for young men is dropping as a result. They said this was a wide spread phenomena with trends showing that this could become a national crises in the next twenty years. Currently, the mix in AP classes was like 70% female and rising.

This is an interesting and frightening dynamic I thought this group might like to dicuss.

As to my feelings on highschool and college, I wish that someone had offered opportunities to learn more about 'real world finance'. It is a crying shame that many Americans do not understand credit, basic accounting, mortgages, and their retirement savings. I didn't learn most of that until my twenties. Every kid coming out of highschool should understand money in a free market economy like ours. Their are way too many ways to lose everything.

Just some more food for thought.

Back to you...

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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