Strippers v.s. Telemarketers
POSTED BY: SigmaNunki
UPDATED: Friday, April 6, 2007 13:36
VIEWED: 4485
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Quote:Well, I hate to be playing semantics, but does 'ethically worse' imply 'unethical'?
Originally posted by Causal:Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
What is ethically worse, being a stripper or being a telemarketers?
You're presupposing that they're both unethical. Justify.
For instance, one could argue that voting for the GOP is ethically worse than voting for the Democrats, but is it unethical?
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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@Causal:
I actually gave some thought about how to respond to your post; going over several different replies in my head. But, in the end, I wanted a short simple response. From your sig (as of this writing) I found such a response:
"""
No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously
"""
@ScorpionRegent:
Not sure. I have zero experience with them. Not that I have very much experience with strippers (one in my life and I was almost literally dragged along).
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
@Causal:
I actually gave some thought about how to respond to your post; going over several different replies in my head. But, in the end, I wanted a short simple response. From your sig (as of this writing) I found such a response:
"""
No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously
"""
Touche!
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Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
What is ethically worse, being a stripper or being a telemarketers?
You're presupposing that they're both unethical. Justify.
I <3 you, Causal.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Touche!
Tee hee
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I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Pedantry is the in-thing at the moment, ALL the fashionable forums are doing it these days. We must keep up appearances.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Pedantry is the in-thing at the moment, ALL the fashionable forums are doing it these days. We must keep up appearances.
Oh, now, I'm no pedant. I have no illusions about the actual pragmatic value of philosophizing--but then that's not really the point. I philosophize not because I rate it too highly, but because I love it so much. So if I think I can draw someone into a philosophical discussion, I will. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Sometimes I just get flamed to pieces. But that's a 2 in 3 chance of something interesting happening, and I guess I'm willing to play those odds.
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Quote:Okay then, what do you think of my statement that something being ethically worse does not imply that it's unethical?
Originally posted by Causal:
I philosophize not because I rate it too highly, but because I love it so much. So if I think I can draw someone into a philosophical discussion, I will.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:Quote:Okay then, what do you think of my statement that something being ethically worse does not imply that it's unethical?
Originally posted by Causal:
I philosophize not because I rate it too highly, but because I love it so much. So if I think I can draw someone into a philosophical discussion, I will.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
Well, you're speaking to an issue of ethical gradation, and typically, ethical philosophers don't go in for graduation of wrongness/rightness, but a mere identification of act as morally blame- or praise-worthy. That said, what is intended by the term "ethically worse"? There seem to be two ways to take that. First, the term might mean, "Between these two alternatives, which is the morally wrong one?" Second, the term might mean, "Between these two morally wrong alternatives, which is more morally wrong?" If the first use of the term is meant, then of course the question of which group is morally worse doesn't imply that both are morally wrong (and, strictly, also doesn't entail that either is). But if that's the intention of the phrase, why use the term "worse?" "Worse" is a comparative term that presupposes that two things share some attributes in common, but that one shares those attributes deficiently. Merriam Webster def 1: "of more inferior quality"; def 2: a: more unfavorable, b: more faulty; def 3: bad, evil, or corrupt in a greater degree: more reprehensible (emphasis added). So I think that to ask which of two alternatives is morally worse is to presuppose that both are morally wrong in some degree, and then to ask further which is morally wrong in the greater degree. That, of course, leaves open the tricky question of how one identifies degrees or gradations of moral wrong.
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Quote:In that case I disagree with ethical philosophers on this point (probably just means I'm wrong), but if something is debate-worthy from an ethical perspective, there's almost never black and white, and the shades of grey can change depending on context (sorry, I know 'shade of grey' is becoming a bit of a cliche, but it fits).
Originally posted by Causal:
Well, you're speaking to an issue of ethical gradation, and typically, ethical philosophers don't go in for graduation of wrongness/rightness, but a mere identification of act as morally blame- or praise-worthy.
Quote:In this case the second case you mentioned is more applicable, but with a modification: "Between these two morally ambiguous alternatives, which is more morally wrong?". I changed 'wrong' to 'ambiguous' since saying flat-out that they're morally wrong is basically saying they're unethical, and this assumption is what I don't necessarily agree with (in general and in this context).
That said, what is intended by the term "ethically worse"? There seem to be two ways to take that. First, the term might mean, "Between these two alternatives, which is the morally wrong one?" Second, the term might mean, "Between these two morally wrong alternatives, which is more morally wrong?"
Or perhaps the following alteration is more fitting: "Between these two alternatives, which are both morally wrong to some degree, which is more morally wrong?". The reason for this change, which in hindsight I probably prefer, is this:
Quote:I don't have a problem with presupposing they're morally wrong to some degree (just like most things worthy of debate are), but that just says that morally speaking they're both not ideal, which is different from assuming they're immoral (or unethical).
Originally posted by Causal:
So I think that to ask which of two alternatives is morally worse is to presuppose that both are morally wrong in some degree, and then to ask further which is morally wrong in the greater degree.
Btw, a bit off-topic but something I'm not sure about and never have been, in a context such as this, what's the difference between 'moral' and 'ethical'? Most of the time I use them interchangeably in these sort of discussions without being sure if I can do that.
Quote:Yep, that's why we have debates on the morality of war, abortion, euthanasia, etc.
That, of course, leaves open the tricky question of how one identifies degrees or gradations of moral wrong.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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