Iran holds British sailors hostage
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Saturday, December 7, 2024 02:28
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Doesn't change the dynamics since it's what the dynamics were from the start, at least according to the UK version and I don't think there's a reason to find the Iranian version more credible. This IS kidnap, and it's not the first time it's happened either.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:The term is FORTUNATLY this is not Maggie 'the crazed bitch' Thatchers Britain.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongsstraw, unfortunatly, this ain't Maggie Thatcher's Great Britain. Seems their finest hour has already chimed.
Nothing against Tony Blair, he's shown himself to be a fine enough fellow. But Maggie is a truly magnificent lady and a top notch P.M. Right up there w/ Winston Churuchill.
Pity you don't recognize.
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Quote:It is being talked about, at least over here.
Originally posted by Causal:
I wonder why that's not being talked about? I mean, two miles might be a touch close, but hey: that's how the game is played. If the Iranians siezed the boat crew in international waters, that seems to change the dynamic somewhat (to me, leastways). If it's verifiable that they were in international waters, then the Iranians are guilty of kidnapping, essentially (maybe piracy?).
Though they weren't seized in international waters, they were seized in Iraqi Waters, which means the Iranians invaded Iraqi territory inorder to illegally abduct British Service personnel.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:It is being talked about, at least over here.
Originally posted by Causal:
I wonder why that's not being talked about? I mean, two miles might be a touch close, but hey: that's how the game is played. If the Iranians siezed the boat crew in international waters, that seems to change the dynamic somewhat (to me, leastways). If it's verifiable that they were in international waters, then the Iranians are guilty of kidnapping, essentially (maybe piracy?).
Though they weren't seized in international waters, they were seized in Iraqi Waters, which means the Iranians invaded Iraqi territory inorder to illegally abduct British Service personnel.
Well, there you have it! I am completely confounded as to why this isn't being talked up on this side of the pond. So not only do they abduct British military personnel, but they do it by violating the national sovereignty of Iraq. I'm not one to advocate wars, and I deeply hope that we don't go to war with Iran, but man have those buggers got some nerve. They meddle with Iraqi internal politics, pour fuel on the sectarian violence in the same, violate the sovereignty of the same, and abduct foriegn nationals in another country's territory. It seems like Iran's making a bid to be a regional power; please, oh, please God, let that not happen.
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Quote:A fine lady that near crippled British industry, whose social and economic policies near brought Britain to it's knees economically, whose utter disregard for public opinion kept her from seeing the very real harm she was causing and whose cabinet's ineptitude allowed a war that could have been stopped before it started.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nothing against Tony Blair, he's shown himself to be a fine enough fellow. But Maggie is a truly magnificent lady and a top notch P.M. Right up there w/ Winston Churuchill.
Pity you don't recognize.
Including Winston Churchills name in the same sentence as Margrate Thatcher is an insult, let alone putting them 'on a par'. If such a position wasn't so tragic it would be a joke.
Pity your criteria for a great leader doesn't step beyond “Were they right wing?”.
”It is strange that the British economy was saved by the total collapse of the Tories economic policy”
David Rough,
Leading City Investor.
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Quote:I agree entirely, I'd go so far to say that a case for war with Iran is by far more secure right now than it ever was with Iraq. Though I want and wanted neither.
Originally posted by Causal:
Well, there you have it! I am completely confounded as to why this isn't being talked up on this side of the pond. So not only do they abduct British military personnel, but they do it by violating the national sovereignty of Iraq. I'm not one to advocate wars, and I deeply hope that we don't go to war with Iran, but man have those buggers got some nerve. They meddle with Iraqi internal politics, pour fuel on the sectarian violence in the same, violate the sovereignty of the same, and abduct foriegn nationals in another country's territory. It seems like Iran's making a bid to be a regional power; please, oh, please God, let that not happen.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:I agree entirely, I'd go so far to say that a case for war with Iran is by far more secure right now than it ever was with Iraq. Though I want and wanted neither.
Originally posted by Causal:
Well, there you have it! I am completely confounded as to why this isn't being talked up on this side of the pond. So not only do they abduct British military personnel, but they do it by violating the national sovereignty of Iraq. I'm not one to advocate wars, and I deeply hope that we don't go to war with Iran, but man have those buggers got some nerve. They meddle with Iraqi internal politics, pour fuel on the sectarian violence in the same, violate the sovereignty of the same, and abduct foriegn nationals in another country's territory. It seems like Iran's making a bid to be a regional power; please, oh, please God, let that not happen.
The bitter irony here is that if Iraq falls into anarchy, Iran will become the regional it wants to be--but given the influnece of the Shia in Iraq, even if the Iraqi government makes it onto its own two feet, Iran will probably still be able to act from a position of power, regionally at least. And what if they do develop a nuke?
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Quote:Completely agree with this, but although I don't want a war, I wouldn't be vehemently opposed to it if the UK government decided it was an appropriate course of action.
Originally posted by citizen:
...I'd go so far to say that a case for war with Iran is by far more secure right now than it ever was with Iraq. Though I want and wanted neither.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
A fine lady that near crippled British industry, whose social and economic policies near brought Britain to it's knees economically, whose utter disregard for public opinion kept her from seeing the very real harm she was causing and whose cabinet's ineptitude allowed a war that could have been stopped before it started.
Hey, she sounds a lot like GW Bush. No wonder these folks love her.
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Things are not always as they seem. The Independent sheds new light on the abduction of 15 British sailors and Marines.
The botched US raid that led to the hostage crisis
Exclusive Report: How a bid to kidnap Iranian security officials sparked a diplomatic crisis
By Patrick Cockburn
Published: 03 April 2007
Quote:
A failed American attempt to abduct two senior Iranian security officers on an official visit to northern Iraq was the starting pistol for a crisis that 10 weeks later led to Iranians seizing 15 British sailors and Marines.
Early on the morning of 11 January, helicopter-born US forces launched a surprise raid on a long-established Iranian liaison office in the city of Arbil in Iraqi Kurdistan. They captured five relatively junior Iranian officials whom the US accuses of being intelligence agents and still holds.
In reality the US attack had a far more ambitious objective, The Independent has learned. The aim of the raid, launched without informing the Kurdish authorities, was to seize two men at the very heart of the Iranian security establishment.
Better understanding of the seriousness of the US action in Arbil - and the angry Iranian response to it - should have led Downing Street and the Ministry of Defence to realise that Iran was likely to retaliate against American or British forces such as highly vulnerable Navy search parties in the Gulf. The two senior Iranian officers the US sought to capture were Mohammed Jafari, the powerful deputy head of the Iranian National Security Council, and General Minojahar Frouzanda, the chief of intelligence of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, according to Kurdish officials.
The rest of the article here:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2414760.ece
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