Jesus Appalled By Americans?

POSTED BY: Mavourneen
UPDATED: Monday, April 9, 2007 23:32
VIEWED: 11915
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GEEZER

Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
After all, what you consider fair business practices in the U.S. aren't tied to reducing HIV/AIDS in Africa, whereas billions in donations may have an effect. What? Repeat please?

In words of one syllable, then.

Though Bill Gates may have made his dough in what you think is a bad way, he might still give it to fight HIV/AIDS not from guilt, but just to help folk. Would a bunch of small guys give as much as one big one? I don't think so.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:08 PM

If people were not so desperately poor, would anyone need to "fight HIV/AIDS" in such a big way?

And what about malaria? Clean water?

The problem with "big donors" is that they get to pick the issues and how to tackle them. If they were to go back to the root causes of poverty- and not just poverty's effects- they might find themselves staring back at them.

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Pity would be no more if we did not make men poor.

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 29, 2007 4:44 PM

AFA the "middle class"- the "middle class" - in fact most people- have NO idea how very rich the very rich are. The "middle class" may like to think that they're in control, and hence share some of the responsibility for what goes on. After all, nobody likes to feel powerless, and it's part of our national mythology that we're all the same and we all have equal options. But the middle class is not the group that decides to shift production from the USA to China to India to Vietnam, it is not the group that traps nations into onerous loans, or controls the media. The only power that the middle class has is to select from a group of candidates which has to some extent beeen pre-selected by money. So I think the middle class should get over itself and stop feeling guilty.

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Always look upstream.

GEEZER

Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If people were not so desperately poor, would anyone need to "fight HIV/AIDS" in such a big way?

And what about malaria? Clean water?

...and continuing your little guessing game, I suppose that we are to assume, based on the rant in your prior post, that doing away with capitalism would somehow make people worldwide not poor. How would this occur, pray tell?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:01 PM

More would have to occur than "doing away with capitalism". I suppose you want me to come up with an entire social/ economic structure to answer all of the world's problems?

HA!

Who do you think I am?

I suppose in one way I appreciate the backhanded respect (thanks Geezer ) but so far even the best thinkers have not yet figured out THAT problem! I do have some ideas, but I have to get back on my treadmill for the rest of today.

Later, dude.

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Always look upstream.

KHYRON

Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
More would have to occur than "doing away with capitalism".

Oh so then it's NOT capitalism that's the root of poverty... then what was that ranting against commercially successful people about?

I'm getting really confused by all the goalpost-shifting in this thread.

Dizzy Khyronisall

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:08 PM

There are several repeating themes in our history as a species, and one of them is the development of the wealthy and powerful at the expense of others. Capitalism is not the only economic system which has created poverty, and it is not the only economic system to justify itself on the basis of greater themes. Emperors, pharaohs, kings, high priests, and robber barons have all at one time or another justified their inordinate positions on the basis of representing the gods, keeping the natural order from collapsing, improving the human race, or leading to a brighter and better future for all. Capitalism just happens to be the one we're dealing with today.

I'm surprised I have to explain that.

There is a "however" to that part of human tendency. Several cultures which were quite advanced for their day apparently did not develop in that direction, including the cities around and including Mohenjo-Daro and the Minoan culture. (One might ask- if they were so good why didn't they survive? The answer is that they were apparently overtakne by natural disaster and/or ecological change.)

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Always look upstream.

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:58 PM

I'm getting really confused by all the goalpost-shifting in this thread.
Dizzy Khyronisall

Heh. Maybe if you sought a wider perspective then little shifts wouldn't bother you so much. It's like trying to read in a car and then looking out the window. Take a deep breath and look at the horizon.

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Always look upstream.

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:55 PM

Speaking of crappy software, I just wanted to pound this nail into Bill Gates' feet of clay and mix a few metaphors while I'm at it.

In 2005...

The personal information of over 40 million people has been hacked... "data from roughly 200,000 accounts from MasterCard, Visa and other card issuers are known to have been stolen in the breach," although 40 million were vulnerable... Microsoft software may be to blame.

www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/cardsystems_exp.html

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Always look upstream.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, March 30, 2007 12:15 AM

There is no middle class. There is only the elite and many degrees of poverty and living on the edge.

According to my annual salary, I'm not too far above the poverty line, but I save every spare penny. (A skill I only acquired after I lost my job and everything I had) The truth is, because of this ability to save, I have more money banked than many so called "middle class" people who are drowing in debt because of the nice cars and their McMansions and all of the crap they spend on their kids. This is not wealth. This is worse than a poor family who cannot get credit that is struggling to survive from paycheck to paycheck.

Couple this with the fact that we'll give free healthcare to illegals and anyone who is paying little or nothing into the system, wheras if you're "middle class", you're expected to foot this bill yourself. During a 4 year nearly jobless stint, working mostly under the table when I could even find work, I thought I had testicular cancer at one point. Of course, being unemployed, I had been without health insurance for years. I waited a full month before seeing a doctor because I was already over $5,000.00 in debt with no way that I could even pay that off, given my current situation. When I couldn't handle thinking about the fact that this could kill me if I didn't get it checked out, I went to the doctor who sent me to the hospital to get labwork. In the end, it turned out only to be a cyst... A cyst that cost me nearly $1,000.00 that I didn't have to get checked out. I can't even imagine how I'd be paying this off still if I had to have an operation. The collections agency wasn't buying my financial situation, however, when they told me that their computer said I had access to over $35,000.00 in credit.

Yeah... did I mention that they give WAY too much credit to poor people too?

No guilt here. If you're feeling guilty about anything and/or you just feel in your heart that you need to help people, go and volunteer in your community. We've got a Federal Reserve who just prints up more money all the time. Ultimately, they are the decision makers when it comes to who gets aid and how much they get. Bill Gates couldn't even imagine the power they have.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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