Other Science Fiction Series

Latest BSG Episode (3/25/07)

POSTED BY: jpstargazer
UPDATED: Friday, March 30, 2007 06:53
VIEWED: 16865
PAGE 6 of 7

FOLLOWMAL

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dietcoke:
Ron Moore said in an interview that they are in fact Cylons.

Quote:
Originally posted by dietcoke:
It's true they deliberately threw us off so you really can't trust the guy. He hasn't done a commentary for the episode yet. Normally he puts it right up.

Ok, please somebody link me. *pleads* or is this on the Skiffy BSG forum?

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I guess we'll just have to wait until January '08.

Yikes, I hate waiting.

From here to the eyes and the ears of the 'Verse!
http://www.geocities.com/browncoatsignalcorps/index.htm

www.goodworkspresents.org

SHINYLIBRARIAN

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 6:30 PM

Here are links to a couple of interviews that Ron Moore gave yesterday, referencing the four-who-are-probably-Cylons-darn-it and other interesting things.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm

http://www.tvweek.com/article.cms?articleId=31699

Enjoy!

ShinyLibrarian

FOLLOWMAL

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyLibrarian:
Here are links to a couple of interviews that Ron Moore gave yesterday, referencing the four-who-are-probably-Cylons-darn-it and other interesting things.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm

http://www.tvweek.com/article.cms?articleId=31699

Enjoy!

ShinyLibrarian

Thank you so much!

From here to the eyes and the ears of the 'Verse!
http://www.geocities.com/browncoatsignalcorps/index.htm

www.goodworkspresents.org

SHINYLIBRARIAN

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:06 PM

You're welcome!

ShinyLibrarian

ARCADIA

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:02 PM

There's a link to a salon.com interview with RDM in one of my above posts, thought that interview focuses more on the creative process and less on the season finale.

Earlier today (yesterday?) he answered 20 fan questions on the scifi boards: http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2270103

Arcadia (aka Greyfable and/or Katie)
www.stillflying.net -- picking up Firefly were Joss left off. We will hold 'til he gets back.

FOLLOWMAL

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:14 PM

Thank you Arcadia... I can't stop reading about this show now that I've been so thoroughly captured by this finale.

I'll check out the salon interview too.
Thanks!

From here to the eyes and the ears of the 'Verse!
http://www.geocities.com/browncoatsignalcorps/index.htm

www.goodworkspresents.org

CAUSAL

Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyLibrarian:
...the four-who-are-probably-Cylons-darn-it...

I'm not saying they aren't Cylons. I'm just saying that we don't know conclusively that they are. Know. Conclusively. That's all.

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DANFAN

Wednesday, March 28, 2007 3:30 PM

I tend to think that the Four are Cylons for the following reasons:

1) The writer of a show may well misdirect his viewers by presenting them with information in an ambiguous fashion that lures the viewers into misinterpretation. This is done all the time by the writers of shows... it is considered "fair" by the viewers.

2) If the writers explicitly tell the viewers something in the story (from the mouth of a character who is "speaking truthfully" at the time), and that something is not true, then they've lied to their audience. This is "not fair." It alienates the viewers. Even if the writer claims that the character believed it at the time... the writer has broken trust with his viewers.

3) The Four explicitly presented themselves as Cylons. They believed it at the time they said it. They weren't trying to deceive anyone within the story with the statement.

4) So, if the writer is being "fair" with his viewers, the Four are Cylons.

If the writer is NOT being fair with his viewers, then the Four could be the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And the writer's audience could decide to watch another show once they realize that they've been lied to. Not many (competent) writers would take that risk. And these guys seem VERY competent to me.

Just my opinions. They are not legal tender. They are not redeemable for coffee.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, March 28, 2007 4:41 PM

*stretches philosopher muscles*

Quote:
Originally posted by danfan:
I tend to think that the Four are Cylons for the following reasons:

1) The writer of a show may well misdirect his viewers by presenting them with information in an ambiguous fashion that lures the viewers into misinterpretation. This is done all the time by the writers of shows... it is considered "fair" by the viewers.

This doesn't present any evidence for the Cylon Thesis. It merely reiterates a point that has already been made by others in the thread previously, so it doesn't provide any support at all: you're only saying, "Yes, writers misdirect." But this has no logical connection to the point under consideration (and when I say "logical" I mean it in the philosophical sense). Misdirection doesn't entail evidence for the Cylon Thesis.

Quote:
2) If the writers explicitly tell the viewers something in the story (from the mouth of a character who is "speaking truthfully" at the time), and that something is not true, then they've lied to their audience. This is "not fair." It alienates the viewers. Even if the writer claims that the character believed it at the time... the writer has broken trust with his viewers.

Again, this is irrelevant to the Cylon thesis. Chief Tyrol may really believe in his heart of hearts that he is a Cylon, and he may also be wrong. This "fair/not-fair" thing is a Red Herring which really only serves to cloud the issue of what evidence there really is. As for the issue of "lying" to one's audience, consider The Sixth Sense. Shamalan presented Bruce Willis' character a certain way throughout the movie--then at the end there's this huge reveal, and we found out we were mistaken. Effectively, he "lied" to us (according to your schema as laid out above). Did that alienate audiences? Hell, no! They flocked to the movie, because it was great story telling. Similarly, we haven't been told that these guys are Cylons explicitly. What we've been told is that they think that they're Cylons; that might seem like needless hair-splitting, but it remains true. They haven't been explicitly shown to be Cylons--the language for this in BSG seems to be the reveal of multiple copies, or self-admission from one who already knows. We've had no reveal of multiple copies, and these guys don't have prior knowledge. They merely experienced a phenomenon and took it to mean something. They could be wrong.

Quote:
3) The Four explicitly presented themselves as Cylons. They believed it at the time they said it. They weren't trying to deceive anyone within the story with the statement.

No, they didn't. They explicitly voiced a conclusion they reached based on exaclty two pieces of evidence: they all heard the same song, and they were all drawn to the same room. Now, the only explanation they could come up with (and, apparently, the only explanation most of us can come up with) is that this means that these guys are Cylons. But that conclusion isn't warranted by the premises. In order to make it follow logically, you'd have to add something like "Any group of people who all experience the same phenomenon are Cylons"--and then it might follow. But then there'd be problems because Athena, Caprica 6 and Roslin all had the same vision, but Roslin didn't hear the music, and isn't being considered a candidate like the other four. Maybe "all being drawn to the same location" would suffice, but then again, we have no reason to suspect that that proposition is correct, and so we can't really use it in a logical argument.

Quote:
4) So, if the writer is being "fair" with his viewers, the Four are Cylons. If the writer is NOT being fair with his viewers, then the Four could be the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And the writer's audience could decide to watch another show once they realize that they've been lied to. Not many (competent) writers would take that risk. And these guys seem VERY competent to me.[

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DANFAN

Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:55 PM

I suppose I could try to respond point by point to your response to my thesis. Then you could respond point by point. Then I could respond point by point.

Then I get fired by my boss for doing all this on his nickel. I dread the conversation that would follow with my wife...

So I'll cheat... in an interview (linked to by this thread), Moore said they were Cylons.

You could argue that he is lying in that interview. You could claim that this is only what he believes now and he could change his mind at some future time in the story line. You could claim that we are all standing in a cave gazing upon our shadows on the back wall.

But for now, I'll let Moore carry my water for me.

;-)