Troll Threshold
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Thursday, October 2, 2025 14:14
VIEWED: 10983
PAGE 10 of 13
Causal, Soup- each one of you has convinced me that you're correct. I can see instances where it is necessary for a minority- especially a minority that is not in power- to have to be especially cognizant of the majority opinion. But that doesn't necessarily mean understanding it, just developing a procedure of how to respond to it.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, may I politely point out that you're mischaracterizing my position as a "double standard"? I said that I didn't think name-calling was acceptable, starting with "Slick". So- time out for YOU, old buddy! I'll not bother to respond to any more of your posts in this thread.
Just wondered why you brought it up in the first place, since I hadn't been posting in this thread. And stating you don't think name-calling is acceptable and then calling me a "name-calling jerk" does seem to be a double standard. Calling me a "troll" in a later post seems to validate that.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
One of our problems "righteous anger". Dang it, we see so much of it in the movies that it seems like it's the answer to everything. Just be right enough and mad enough to beat the crap out of the "bad guy" and everything wil work out. Negotiating is for wusses, right?
Sooo true SignyM. Cable news is as much to blame as movies. Look how cranky Bill Oreilly and Shawn Hannity make the Republicans. And look how bent Jon Stewart and Phil Maher make the Dems. Embracing these shows as THE TRUTH inhibits gaining knowlege from people with different points of view.
I'm pretty new here. I came to the site because I love Firefly. I have found here an interesting mix...Trolls, stuffy Brits, Ne-Cons, flaming liberals, people who consider themselves very very intelligent, and so on... What confuses me is why some people expect the thread to be orderly in accordance with whatever criteria they've created in thier heads. It's politics!, which should be chaotic. You can't put all these variations in one room and expect sanity, or even civility for that matter!
"You can believe your eyes...or you can believe me." -Groucho Marx
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Double post. What to do?
I think a lot of the problem with supposed mis-direction of threads is that different folks care about different parts of some of the broader ranging issues we discuss. If I want to talk about tax complexity and someone comes in with a post about electronic security of tax data, it's probably because that's the part of "tax" they are concerned about, not because they work for H&R Block and don't want discussion of simpler tax forms.
Unfortunately, as noted in another thread, some of us have pretty set opinions of others of us. You begin to expect an argument rather than a discussion, and get too touchy. When I get this way I usually try to just not deal with the other person for a while.
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In fact, to continue the thought on understanding versus responding to. In some cases, our responses actually prevent understanding because we may be so intent on responding as we see ourselves (a homosexual, a woman, a white guy) that we simply reinforce stereotypes in our own head. Perhaps we may even precipitate the reaction that we fear.
For example, my stroll through the barrio. I can take the "potential victim" view... I'm so white. I stand out. These places are dangerous.
This view is not conducive to understanding.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Geezer, I apologize for name-calling.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, I apologize for name-calling.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
Thank you. I'll try to keep it down also.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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SignyM
That's the point. Now imagine you're black or Hispanic driving through a 'nicer' part of town in your less than pristine chariot. You're not obviously a maid or gardener. People who do look at you look at you askance. Someone calls the cops. And you're arrested for driving while Black (or Hispanic).
The majority doesn't understand that just by being the majority they have blinders on. They're moving through a world made by them and for them; and in their eyes it's a fact of life. It's just the way 'things are'.
BTW, I think Europeans may have the advanatage over USers b/c they have to deal cheek by jowl with other cultures, religions and political systems every day. It keeps their awareness levels up. And I truly believe the US cultivates an ignorant mindset - 'I don't know much about art ...', 'don't know much about history, don't know much geography; don't know much about science books ...'
It may not further your undersanding of Hispanics, or Anglos, or Blacks*, but it illustrates what being in the minority is like.
*Any more than watching dubya clearing brush helps him understand us regular non-folk, or helps us understand the lives of people who have all the money they could possibly use and power over a big chunk of our lives.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
In fact, to continue the thought on understanding versus responding to. In some cases, our responses actually prevent understanding because we may be so intent on responding as we see ourselves (a homosexual, a woman, a white guy) that we simply reinforce stereotypes in our own head. Perhaps we may even precipitate the reaction that we fear.
For example, my stroll through the barrio. I can take the "potential victim" view... I'm so white. I stand out. These places are dangerous.
This view is not conducive to understanding.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I disagree. And I think it's on a pretty fundamental level that relates to privilege. I think that you are basing your statements off the assumption of a level playing field between members of a minority group and members of a majority group. Which, in my opinion, does not exist. It's not even that the field isn't level, it's that the teams are playing with different equipment to different rules in different leagues of a different sport.
Try the following statement on for size and let me know if you agree or disagree: I, as a heterosexual man, have to think about things from a homosexual perspective in order to successfully navigate my daily life.
I disagree with that statement. I can live my entire life never once having to think about things from the perspective of a homosexual man in order to successfully navigate situations. Because I am a member of the norm. I can always operate from a heterosexual perspective without being accused of rocking the boat. I can openly acknowledge my sexuality without causing a stir. Etc.
I don't disagree with any of this--but then again, this isn't what I was talking about. I wasn't referring to needing to know certain things in order to get on in life. I'm talking about other-ness. The guards at Guantanamo saw their prisoners as the Other, and justified doing all manner of horrible things to them. Racists see minorities as the Other and do terrible things. So what is it that allows people to see groups as the Other? My contention is that it has nothing to do with majority/minority status. All that's required is dehumanizing the other side. Take some trivial thing, say left-handed-ness. If lefties were thought to be lazy, imbecilic lawbreakers, and persecuted accordingly, it's pretty clear that they're the Other to the righties. They've been dehumanized, and reduced to a single feature. But equally, lefties could come to see righties as the Other--that is, dehumanize them and see them only with respect to their status as persecutors. This is a dehumanization and Other-ness just as much as they suffer, and it's wrong, too.
Take racial minorities. Racists see them as the Other and treat them accordingly. But a member of the minority might just as easily come to see all those in the racial majority as evil oppressors (thus making them the Other)--and that's wrong two. What I'm suggesting is that we all need to see each other as human beings first, because we all see someone as the Other.
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Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Causal,
If you want to feel what being in the minority feels like, take a stroll through a barrio some day. Just you by yourself. Now imagine living your life there are being dependent on that society for your job, your housing and everything else that keeps you alive.
Which is not to say that people of the barrio would do the things white folk have done to them. But it's a thought experiment to help you understand how alienated and helpless you might feel if you even thought the society was stacked against you - as a minority.
This is a worthy suggestion: put yourself in someone else's shoes. But I would also suggest we're all of us in the minority in some way or other, and so we could all of us be bettered by drawing on that experience when we come up against people who disagree with us.
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Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
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