Troll Threshold

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Thursday, October 2, 2025 14:14
VIEWED: 10983
PAGE 6 of 13

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE

SERGEANTX

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I guess what really disturbs me is that we've divided ourselves into camps: left and right. The two cannot get along, not around any subject because it's essential to the nature of each to oppose the other. So no real meaningful dialogue can take place, just flame and ugliness. And I just don't see any real way to fix it. None at all. And that scares the shit out of me, when it comes to the future of the West.

I agree. It's one of the most frustrating problems I have with political discourse these days. But for me, the problem isn't people with strong convictions. The problem is people who argue from affiliation and political identity rather than ideological conviction. It seems like most folks are just 'sports fans' - in the sense that they pick a side and cheer for their team. Scoring a 'victory' for your side is more important than persuasion or * gasp * actually learning something from the conversation.

But I do see a slender thread of hope in the situation. The right and the left, in their desperate attempts to beat each other at all costs, are showing just how empty and self-serving their convictions really are. Maybe the whole mess will encourage people to think for themselves a little more.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:43 AM

There are a very few people in RWED who ARE trolls. The question is not whether someone is a troll but what to do about it. I said it before and I'll say it again: on THIS board* there are just a few useful options:

a) Don't respond to the trollish comments. Stick to topical ideas in the post.

b) Don't respond at all.

Calling someone a troll or responding in kind is EXACTLY what a troll wants. Because as much as a troll may WANT to derail a discussion it can only happen with the active participation of others. I HAVE seen trolls ignored right off a board. It requires taking a deep breath sometimes, but the person who acts like a jerk becomes VERY obvious when everyone else is not. Yes, some people are infuriating, unfair, manipulative bullies. BUT this is cyberspace. Bones will not be broken, and in a short while the comment that just itched for a riposte will fade away.

*There are other boards with more options:
Ratings, either by the moderator or the users.
Rules. Banishment by the moderator for breaking the rules.
Loving the troll to death. (We'd never manage it here but I've seen it done elsewhere!)

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
I agree. It's one of the most frustrating problems I have with political discourse these days. But for me, the problem isn't people with strong convictions. The problem is people who argue from affiliation and political identity rather than ideological conviction. It seems like most folks are just 'sports fans' - in the sense that they pick a side and cheer for their team. Scoring a 'victory' for your side is more important than persuasion or * gasp * actually learning something from the conversation.

But I do see a slender thread of hope in the situation. The right and the left, in their desperate attempts to beat each other at all costs, are showing just how empty and self-serving their convictions really are. Maybe the whole mess will encourage people to think for themselves a little more.

Good post, Sarge. I think you're right on the money with most of this. Orson Scott Card (and please, oh please, God, let's not start that again) recently wrote a book with the premise of how a second American civil war might actually unfold. The book depicted not a north-south war, but a left-right war. And he said this, which I loved: "There are two sides that see the world so radically differently that they truly believe that anyone who disagrees with them is evil or stupid or both." And I see this in my classrooms, and I see it on these boards--and it is only getting worse, and it scares the bejesus out of me. Because it really seems like we're piling oilly rags in a poorly ventilated room: just a matter of time before the whole thing comes down. Now, I've thought of starting a thread on this very point--I think it would just devolve into a political hate-fest (though that would give me tremendous told-you-so satisfaction).

I think you're right that most people don't truly think about what they believe: they just believe it. Maybe that's legitimate, maybe not; I'm not here to debate epistemology. But one thing I know: if you haven't thought your beliefs through, you really shouldn't be arguing about them, because you haven't put in the skull sweat to be able to do it in an intelligent, meaningful way. For example, I believe there's a God, but I do on the basis of a thought process, so I feel competent defending that position. Arguing that there's a God (or isn't one) merely because that's what you believe is just destined to turn into a flame war.

I guess I'm not as optimistic as you are--the fact that the rhetoric is getting worse indicates to me that people are getting less willing to think, not more.

*shrug*

Guess I better learn how to fiddle.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police

RUE

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:54 AM

Causal,

"I guess it's the retaliation-in-kind thing I disagree with." But you defend, support and add to the initial attack when it's made from 'your side'. I have a problem with that.

RUE

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:56 AM

SignyM

Inaccuracy of ANY kind bugs the shit out of me. When people purposefully post (how's that for alliteration) downright lies over and over, someone needs to respond or they become accepted.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:58 AM

Good posts Sarge and Causal. And BTW I like Orson Scott card. Not sure what you're referring to when you say "that again"- and I'm glad I missed it.

One of our problems "righteous anger". Dang it, we see so much of it in the movies that it seems like it's the answer to everything. Just be right enough and mad enough to beat the crap out of the "bad guy" and everything wil work out. Negotiating is for wusses, right?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:02 AM

Quote:
Inaccuracy of ANY kind bugs the shit out of me. When people purposefully post (how's that for alliteration) downright lies over and over, someone needs to respond or they become accepted.

It is possible to respond effectively w/o creating animosity. Trolls use your anger to lead you down the path THEY want ... Don't give in to the dark side, Luke!

Also, I think most of the ppl here post sincerely. They may be sincerely wrong, but they're sincere. Whatever issue they're defending or point they're trying to make is because they are so emotionally invested they literally cannot see their ideas from a different viewpoint, or argue an objective point. Any disagreement becomes an attack, any discussion a bar fight. Keep that in mind.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

RUE

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:26 AM

"Also, I think most of the ppl here post sincerely. They may be sincerely wrong, but they're sincere." And I think very few here are trolls - people intentionally, maliciously baiting and derailing - but there are a few.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I guess what really disturbs me is that we've divided ourselves into camps: left and right. The two cannot get along, not around any subject because it's essential to the nature of each to oppose the other. So no real meaningful dialogue can take place, just flame and ugliness. And I just don't see any real way to fix it. None at all. And that scares the shit out of me, when it comes to the future of the West.

Strangely enough I've never had this problem when debating politics with anyone but Americans, I've gone over all the same things with British (even Australian and Canadian, but never French) conservatives, half the people I drink with and most of the people I work with are conservative, without problem. Although I'm sure that's just proof that I hate Americans or something I find it's much harder to discuss things with Americans sometimes because things have to be polarised (you're liberal, I'm conservative we have to disagree on everything) and it so often has to be about whose saying what rather than what is being said. I find American approach to politics to be somewhat different to British, more about the cult of personality rather than anything approaching issues.

What's most frustrating is that so often you can predict someone's opinions based on whether they vote Democrat or Republican (actually what is most frustrating is how a country like the US with such a huge right wing slant to both it's politics and media has so many talking about the liberal bias of the media which is simply not there). I do wonder though if that is what the contention is, not merely that Liberals are in the majority here, but that because this board is mostly of American stock many of the conservatives simply cannot handle not being in the majority as they are IRL.

It's certainly true that this board is mostly full of thick skinned posters that attack each other, I'm certainly aware that I am not blameless there. I'm also aware that in many posters those quickest to talk about how 'everyone is attacking them' are the first to attack, I'm also aware that I post on other boards with little or no problem, so find the many accusations that it is 'all down to me' to be somewhat baseless.

I'd also like to point out that there are a number of Trolls who frequent this board, and that they have chosen a right wing persona, doubtlessly because they realise that there is a strong liberal presence here, I also find it frustrating that some of the real conservative posters here give some of the Trolls a free pass, seemingly because of this.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:35 AM

Lemme Clarify that one bit.

When I say "Fairy Tale" I mean a claim that's been proven utterly false, totally debunked, and blown from the water.

Not a personal opinion or perspective, but a deliberate statement of bogus info that even five minutes of investigation will prove untrue regardless of political affiliation.

Being more or less an anarchist, I don't have a "side", politically, and in light of certain realities I am willing to settle for any progress towards personal freedom I can get, even though the Constitution is substantially flawed, it's better than anything we currently have to replace it, and I swore an Oath to uphold and defend it, and thus I do so.

I really hate good threads being droned out of existance by a constant left-right flamefest, but as SixString pointed out a while back, the other end of that is being too PC to even debate or discuss tough issues.

People here need to learn to agree to disagree, it's been done on occasion, even here - if a point becomes untenable, instead of drawing a line in the sand and creating a verbal furball that accomplishes nothing at all, simply state your disagreement and leave it at that.

I may come off pretty harsh at times myself, but I'll stay on the topic till things are hashed out or till an impasse is reached, and then bite my tongue and go elsewhere.

Nobody's perfect, but I don't think it's too much to ask of each other to just leave an impasse without fortifying positions and lobbing bombs at each other - we got plenty enough of that in the real world, thank ya very muchly.

And this post was written half-cognizant on not enough sleep so be forgiving if it rambled.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE