Return with us now, to the thrilling days of yesteryear....

POSTED BY: Dayve
UPDATED: Thursday, March 27, 2025 23:01
VIEWED: 4183
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MARINA

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:06 PM

Just wanted to chime in with :

Dayve, I agree that this is definitely an issue worth discussing, but it also appears to be one of those subjects people just don't want to get roped into arguing about.

All opinions about gun control aside, I think the bill is silly; not necessarily dangerous (I hope), but rather ridiculous. When you're fighting for your life you're not considering whether there is a statute to protect your actions - you just want to live in safety. Promoting this bill serves to perpetuate an atmosphere of fear by implying that the right to SHOOT someone if you feel threatened is a right that is sorely needed, and personally I think America has quite enough fear on its plate right now.

Don't make faces.

DAYVE

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
There's something seriously wrong with the Gun culture of the states that isn't going to be solved by making it legal for law abiding citizens to shoot each other for telling someone to "fuck off".

Thanks Citizen, this was my first thought as well.

I want to try and clarify the term ‘threatened’.
If someone wants to do you violent harm, surly you are justified in using any means necessary to defend yourself. But suppose you are in a situation where you feel threatened simply because of perceived danger. Unfortunately, many prejudices still exist in this world and if someone feels they have the right to use deadly force because they are outside of their comfort zone and don’t like the ‘company’ they find themselves in, doesn’t a more lenient gun law invite a kind of old west, vigilante mentality?

HERO

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
But, can you imagine a world without guns? I know mankind would find a way to kill someone just as dead without one, but if you could just stop laughing for a second and think about what a difference there would be in this country, at least, if it were not so easy to end a life with the squeeze of a trigger... I know it will never happen, but it's not a totally unreasonable idea. (for me anyway)...

Yeah but it would not be "a world without guns". It'd be like Washington DC..."a world without guns owned by law-abiding citizens."

If you pass a law against guns the criminals will not obey it...because they are criminals...as in folk who don't obey laws.

Now in the REAL wild west bad guys had guns. Then guns became cheap and readily available and any everyday man or woman could own one and use one and suddenly law and order was a lot more available. If every Momma and Granny in Washington was given a gun whenever they lost a child to drug violence then I suspect that the local crack houses would quickly find themselves out of business.

"Dear Mrs. Soandso, I am sorry to hear about the loss of your child. I promise that the City will do all it can to bring his killers to justice. In the meantime please accept this semi-automatic rifle, high capacity magazines, and this case of .308 Winchester ammunition. I know it will bring you no comfort in this time of grief. Be assured that we will dilligently pursue this matter at 3123 West Pennsylvania Circle, the address of those responsible for the death of your son and as a well know local gathering place for those engaging in the illegal drug trade. Be assurred that we have that address under surviellance at all times with the exception of 3pm-4:30pm daily. I advise you to not go to that place at that time as there will be no law enforcement persons in place to witness anything that may occur. Should you find yourself wishing to rid yourself of the weapon provided by the City please call 555-6723 to turn your weapon in for immediate destruction, no questions asked or forensic testing done. Sincerly Wyatte Earp, Washington DC, Citizen-Police Cooperative Association."

H

DAYVE

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by marina:
....one of those subjects people just don't want to get roped into arguing about.

Yes, I agree. There are definite opinions on both sides of the gun issue, and to argue each point ‘for or against’ is usually frustrating if not completely useless.

As for myself, I have lived in Texas for most of my life and gun ownership is taken for granted here. The crime rate in most major cities here may not be as high as Detroit or D.C., but there are plenty of violent crimes committed here each day. The border towns involved with the drug cartels of Mexico are particularly bloody.

I just feel that we are losing a little more humanity each time we give in to the more violent side of our nature. I guess I hoped that mankind would have progressed a little more than it has.

SHINYED

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:49 PM

We already have that in Florida....no big deal. You must take a concealed weapons course, pass a test, & be licensed by the State. After that you can shoot anyone you want...but you damn-well better be prepared to 'splain it to the law.

I am not aware of ANY incidents of illegal shootings under this new law which took effect last year.

MARINA

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:

As for myself, I have lived in Texas for most of my life and gun ownership is taken for granted here. The crime rate in most major cities here may not be as high as Detroit or D.C., but there are plenty of violent crimes committed here each day. The border towns involved with the drug cartels of Mexico are particularly bloody.

I just feel that we are losing a little more humanity each time we give in to the more violent side of our nature. I guess I hoped that mankind would have progressed a little more than it has.

I'll second that (and just about everything else you've pointed out).

I'll also add (and I'm disabling response notification so I won't be tempted to come back and do exactly what I swore I wouldn't and get roped into a debate) that when we're comparing crime rates there seems to be this assumption that cities outside the US aren't useful reference points. Other countries (England?) have very limited gun availability - even to police - and far fewer firearm-related crimes and deaths. So while Hero and others may be able to use crime in DC vs. crime in Austin as a springboard for their positions, there is a LOT of data out there that works equally well for the opposing argument.

Don't make faces.

GEEZER

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
Ok, no-brainer, I get it. If I were in a situation where i felt my life was threatened, i would try to protect myself by any means possible, regardless of laws - But, I still believe there will be abuses of this expanded version of the law and the potential is there for innocent lives to be lost....

The problem is, if you do this right now in Texas any place other than your home - say your place of business, or your car stopped at a traffic light - even if your are actually justified, you may likely be charged with a homicide, and get to go bankrupt paying for lawyers to keep you out of jail.

And if you aren't charged with a crime, you can still be sued in civil court by the person you had to shoot, or his relatives. More lawyers, more of your life down the drain.

In an ideal world, no one would ever have to resort to self-defense. However, you shouldn't end up saving your life from a killer just to lose it in endless litigation.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

RUE

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:03 PM

Remember, if you shoot someone, shooting them in the back looks very bad.

GEEZER

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Most firearms are illegal in the UK and the violent crime rates are much lower.

Depending on how you define "violent crime", rates in England and Wales seem to be about equal or higher than the US, just doing a little Goggle search.

Quote:
There's something seriously wrong with the Gun culture of the states that isn't going to be solved by making it legal for law abiding citizens to shoot each other for telling someone to "fuck off".

As a matter of fact, the Texas law specifically exempts shooting caused in any way by name calling.

BTW, the Gun Culture in the US is the guys who go hunting or target shooting, and are seldom involved as perpetrators of crimes. Now if we could do something about the Crime Culture, who do carry illegal weapons and do shoot(or stab, or hack, or firebomb, or...well you get the idea) someone for looking at them wrong.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

GEEZER

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Remember, if you shoot someone, shooting them in the back looks very bad.

"But officer, he was shooting at me. You mean you've never heard of a Parthian shot?"

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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