AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!! Spoilers

POSTED BY: CB
UPDATED: Friday, March 19, 2004 16:50
VIEWED: 9589
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CB

Friday, March 5, 2004 3:29 AM

Spoilers Ahead...
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I'm Serious, if You haven't seen "Shells", don't scroll down any farther. Go away. I mean it. Shoo!
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Okay, I assume everyone who made it this far has seen the episode, so you understand the title of this thread. Now, I've been mostly a lurker on this board, occasionally posting a light comment here and/or there.

But I think "Shells" warrants a thread. While I am still obsessing over how hot Illyria/Fred looks (major hottness), it pains me to know that Fred is gone. Not just dead, ( ) like Buffy. Not just dusted, ( ) like Darla.

GONE.

Everything except a few of her memories were burned away when Illyria came into being. Up until this point, Joss has never made a character GONE. He's killed them bunches, and bunches, and bunches... of times, but it was always reversible, through evil magic, good magic, and suprise, *magic* amulets. I think what he has done is brought Angel Inc. into the real world, where death is not reversible, and people are gone, and you do grieve, and it can bring out the best in you (Angel), or the worst in you (Wes).

It's a terrible feeling, like you're hollow inside, like nothing you do matters anymore, and just when you think things can't possibly get any worse, you remember some trivial detail about the first time you met them, and things plunge into darker territory.

It's the worst feeling in your life, but it's real. Something death has never quite been in the Buffy/Angel-verse.

(Sorry for long double-post, but I just had to get it out)

ASTRIANA

Friday, March 5, 2004 3:34 AM

CB... Quick tip for spoilers... look to the upper left for the [ spoiler ]... [ /spoiler ] tags... What that does is force the reader to highlight the text in order to see it... That way, you don't have to worry if someone scrolls into the spoiler by mistake...

Just a helpful tip!

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

SUCCATASH

Friday, March 5, 2004 3:37 AM

CB, I haven't been an Angel fan for very long, but I'd have to say that Fred is not necessarily gone. A few lines of dialogue about her soul being gone doesn't mean much. Anything is possible. Keep the faith. Joss loves you.

INSANESPIKE

Friday, March 5, 2004 9:44 PM

Gotta agree with Tash on this one. I don't think there is ANY aspect of death, including everything being burned away, that Joss cannot find a way to reverse on the show. Although, everything would certainly point to Fred being gone for good, I won't believe it until I see that she hasn't come back by the end of the series finale.

Also, remember one thing. Illyria seems to have the ability to alter time. Im thinking this mis going to come into play when it comes to getting Fred back.

"How drunk was I last night?"

MAUGWAI

Friday, March 5, 2004 10:01 PM

Quote:
I don't think there is ANY aspect of death, including everything being burned away, that Joss cannot find a way to reverse on the show.

But Josh also likes to do the unexpected. And if you've heard the commentary for the Buffy episode "Innocence" you may remember that Joss said he purposely had Angel kill the hooker right at the beginning so we'd know he wasn't faking. I think he harped pretty heavily on Fred being gone and showed that scene at the end of her all hopeful so that we'd get the point - and feel as depressed as I certainly do now. So as much as I hate to admit it, I think Fred really is gone.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

STILLSHINY

Friday, March 5, 2004 10:57 PM

Sad as it is I would lose the appreciation for this episode if Fred came back. The whole parallel of Elyria (sp) & Fred would be unravelled. Fred is dead. Everything Wes was finally willing to take a hold of was stripped away. It has to stay away or else his grief becomes "scripted" not real. Just as Ilyria (sp hey I'm trying) walked into that throne room to find it empty, lifeless. It boils down to what is your purpose when all you've lived for is gone? The question is posed to Wes, Elyria, & all us fans who felt Angel was the only thing worth turning the TV on for. Grief happens...either you carry it, or you get buried alive under it. I love this dark & shiny show.

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

ANGELDOVE

Saturday, March 6, 2004 5:21 AM

Quote:
Everything except a few of her memories were burned away when Illyria came into being. Up until this point, Joss has never made a character GONE. He's killed them bunches, and bunches, and bunches... of times, but it was always reversible, through evil magic, good magic, and suprise, *magic* amulets. I think what he has done is brought Angel Inc. into the real world, where death is not reversible, and people are gone, and you do grieve, and it can bring out the best in you (Angel), or the worst in you (Wes).

Not that I am in anyway trying to be critical, but Joss has killed main characters, Cordy on Angel, and Tara on Buffy. So I don't think it is infeasible to believe that Fred might be gone for good, especially if this truly is the last season (which it is looking like more and more). However I don't feel this is the end of Fred, if there is another season. I think insanespike is right in the belief that the foreshadowing is just an attempt to cover the possibility of Fred coming back. It will all be very interesting to watch unfold. I know a few people were upset about this story line, and felt it was yet another character going to the dark side, again. But I really feel this time is different and much more interesting than the Cordy goes bad story line. And I have to agree, Fred does make a hot bad chick.

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

SHADOWVESSEL

Saturday, March 6, 2004 5:38 AM

Here's another possibility: Fred is gone for good, but Illiyara (sp) becomes the newest member of Team Angel. I'm sure an Ancient would come in pretty handy in an apocalyptic battle that could be used to end the show. Well? If Spike can do the evil guy turned good why can't Illiyara?

"I'll be in my bunk."

PEACE

Saturday, March 6, 2004 7:30 AM

Fred is gone. This saddens me, although it's not all bad (Illyria is still here, and Amy Acker is utterly hot in any incarnation). She's likely to stay gone since Joss is under the gun to end the series in a few episodes.

This is Joss at his best. This is what keeps us coming back-- fidelity to the pain of real loss, and the joy of real triumph. Joss is going to figure out some way of wrapping Angel up as well as he wrapped Buffy. Just you wait and see.

And did I mention Amy Acker is utterly gorgeous?

Oh, bugger! Now I have to wait for someone to wake up!

LITWOLF689

Saturday, March 6, 2004 1:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShadowVessel:
Here's another possibility: Fred is gone for good, but Illiyara (sp) becomes the newest member of Team Angel. I'm sure an Ancient would come in pretty handy in an apocalyptic battle that could be used to end the show.

Excuse me while I run away screaming.

Not to be mean or anything but I really would be crush, horrified, and maybe even disgusted if the Angel Team took Illiria (sp? does anyone know how to really spell her name) onto the team.

First off, Illiria is evil. Period. I know Spike and Angel were able to come back after being evil but they got souls and Illiria is one of the Old Ones, the meanest demons ever.

Second, I dont think Fred is completely dead. Yeah she is gone but the team should be able to get her back. Like it was said in Buffy sometime, Willow was able to bring Buffy back because of unatural causes (she jumped into a hell portal). The reason it was so risky and not advised to bring Joyce (Buffy and Dawn's mom) back was because her death was natural. A health related death, like Joyce's (died of a brain tumor), was natural.

Fred was possesed by a demon with her organs liquified, that is really not natural. So I think they should be able to get her back.

She just cant be dead! I refuse to believe she's dead!!!!

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AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!! *Spoilers*

AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!! Spoilers