Tehran Condemns 300
POSTED BY: Dayve
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 3, 2026 21:56
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I find it pretty strange how in one thread Rue vehemently opposes Coulter for calling somebody a "faggot", and here she dismisses an entire culture as a bunch homosexuals who didn't know how to raise children.
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Mmmm...delicious irony...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
I find it pretty strange how in one thread Rue vehemently opposes Coulter for calling somebody a "faggot", and here she dismisses an entire culture as a bunch homosexuals who didn't know how to raise children.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
Well the facts seem to be in her favor - Spartans could marry at 20 but could not live with their families until after they left military service. Boys started military training as 6 or 7 year olds and babies that were deemed unfit or boys that didn't seem to fit the ideal of the warrior were left to die on the side of a mountain.
Sounds to me like a whole bunch of men living together in CLOSE proximity and ummmmm not real good parenting skills.
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FORSAKEN original
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Before Spartans are portrayed as uber-men in the heroic western mold I think people need to know Spartan men lived together in groups exclusively and never with women. And the men in those clubs had great sex with each other. The Spartans didn't have a whole lot of children who survived, thanks to their bizarre child-rearing practices. Because of that, and despite the massive use of slaves, the Spartan culture died out quite early. If ever a culture deserved the Darwin Award, it would be them.Quote:
Spartan marriage customs fascinated other Greeks, who knew so little about them anyway. ... In fact, in sexual matters, the Spartans, true to their conservative outlook in everything, seem to have had the highest rate of monogamy in all Greece. They undoubtably had a high respect for their women and regarded them as having a greater equality than the Oriental approach to be found in Ionia, Athens, or Corinth. Also, contrary to the attitude that might have been expected among a warrior caste, homosexuality seems to have been little known--quite unlike the Thebans in northern Greece who were to make a cult among their soldiers of coulples fighting side by side together, as in the infamous "Theban Band of Lovers."
From Thermopylae, by Ernle Bradford, Da Capo, 1980.
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Causal - Quoting Thermopylae does not help your postion - it even states that little is known about Spartan society. This person is making statements based on opinion not verifiable fact.
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FORSAKEN original
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Causal - Quoting Thermopylae does not help your postion - it even states that little is known about Spartan society. This person is making statements based on opinion not verifiable fact.
Actually, please read the quote more carefully. It says the other Greeks knew very little about Spartan culture--not that little is known about them by anyone at all. In fact, there is a great deal of historical data available on Sparta and Spartan culture. I'm sure that Mr. Bradford, as an historian specializing on Mediterranean military history, would have known and used those sources, and because of that, I'm pretty sure that referencing his book exactly helps my position.
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Edited to add: what historical sources has Rue offered? Seems that Rue is just making the assumption that military men living in barracks can't keep their hands off each other. At least I referenced the work of a scholar.
Re-edited to add: when did this thread go from funny to snarky? Oh, wait, we're in RWED, where people disagree with each on the basis of who the other person is, not the argument they're making. Maybe we should petition Haken to change the name of the forum to "Real World Ad Hominem."
Re-edited to add: it was fun while it lasted, Geezer. Next time, post this sort of thing in Talk Story!
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As a 2nd thought, I wonder if this gives the Hollywood elites any pause for concern. I mean, THEY are the ones the mullahs would behead first, if given half a chance.
Are they SURE they don't want to support the GOP?
I'm just sayin'.
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Khyron,
Quote:Not really. The 'gay' thing is not my issue. I was hoping to prevent any shock on the part of people who view the Spartans as 'manly men' in the Western mold. And they weren't 'gay' in the modern Western sense either. Their culture was completely different from ours.
Originally posted by Khyron:
I find it pretty strange how in one thread Rue vehemently opposes Coulter for calling somebody a "faggot", and here she dismisses an entire culture as a bunch homosexuals who didn't know how to raise children.
And you won't find 'gay', 'faggot', or any sexual perjorative term in my post. That's YOUR interpretation, probably based on your own homophobia. Oh, and ingnorance. Can't forget the ignorance, either.
The problem they had in their culture, as I indicated, was they didn't have that many children actually survive. They literally put 'imperfect' children out to die in large numbers. For the ones that weren't put out to die, their boys were raised in packs by older boys out in the wilds. At a young age, 3 or 4, they were put out in the mountains with, I believe, one cloak. Either those packs of boys found them or the other way around. They lived severely deprived lives in the hills with no shelter, food or clothing beyond what they could get for themselves. They were expected to be self-sufficient from then on, or die. (Though thieving was a lesson they were supposed to learn.) That's what caused their decline and was a key "Darwin Award" feature of their culture.
If they survived childhood they were put through severe physical tests. If they survived those they were admitted into male communal homes, where they lived the rest of their lives (with brief visits to the wife).
Just to reiterate what I said, since you seemed to have missed understanding the big words:
Before Spartans are portrayed as uber-men in the heroic western mold I think people need to know Spartan men lived together in groups exclusively and never with women. And the men in those clubs had great sex with each other. The Spartans didn't have a whole lot of children who survived, thanks to their bizarre child-rearing practices. Because of that, and despite the massive use of slaves, the Spartan culture died out quite early. If ever a culture deserved the Darwin Award, it would be them.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Just to reiterate what I said, since you seemed to have missed understanding the big words:
Before Spartans are portrayed as uber-men in the heroic western mold...
Err, Rue. It was you who first referred to the Spartans as "Uber-men in the heroic western mold". The rest of us were just making fun of the Iranians. BTW, I got no problem with gay men being heroic. Why do you?
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The problem is that your particular phrasing misleads the reader into the understanding that your "aversion" to homosexuality leads to the conclusion that you believe they shouldn't be cast as archetype for "proud warriors" and rather in fact you are glad they no longer exist as part of the human race.
I am not sure if further padding (or perhaps some needed "back-paddling" on your part) your response leads me to think otherwise. Your description of those selected parts of their culture sounds on the level to what I remember, but I am not sure how judging them with today's standards of morality and any other ruler deserves them to be cast out of the human gene pool.
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Just to reiterate what I said, since you seemed to have missed understanding the big words:
Before Spartans are portrayed as uber-men in the heroic western mold I think people need to know Spartan men lived together in groups exclusively and never with women. And the men in those clubs had great sex with each other. The Spartans didn't have a whole lot of children who survived, thanks to their bizarre child-rearing practices. Because of that, and despite the massive use of slaves, the Spartan culture died out quite early. If ever a culture deserved the Darwin Award, it would be them.
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Slick,
B/c the Iranians were made into the 'bad guys' by casting them as effeminate and debauched. And the Spartans, the 'goods guys', were by contrast cast into the prototype heroic western mold. Which historically they don't fit.
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