The Companions Guild - hurrah!!

POSTED BY: AgentRouka
UPDATED: Thursday, March 15, 2007 02:35
VIEWED: 13767
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YINYANG

Monday, March 12, 2007 9:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
Still, the Guild is close to the Alliance- all worlds of NOT GOOD, ya?

Really? Is the Alliance not good (or 'evil', if you will)? Like Joss mentioned in the Serenity movie commentary, I tend to believe that they're for the most part relatively benevolent (just like our own various governments). They may seem as though they are evil, or at best, inept, but that's more an issue of scale, not ability.

And, maybe that holds true with the Guild. The way it operates and the amount of things it operates with might be incompatible - what works on a small scale doesn't typically work on a large scale. There are rules, and laws, to protect its members and the clients; but maybe they don't always have time for everything that needs done, and a lot of "little" things get brushed under the rug (like speeding, not stoping at stop signs, etc. tend to in the US). And maybe those "little" things were enough for Inara to leave (although I like to think she was running from something largely unrelated to the Guild). She's not dissatisfied with the Guild overall, just some of their lax practices.

::shrugs::

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2X2

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
Truth is, the Guild is secretive. In my humble experience, secretive folks usualy have a particular reason as ta WHY they're secretive. And, therefore, they're a big, fat target, in my sights.

I'm curious (I like to ask questions) why you think the Guild is necessarily secretive? We really saw next to nothing of the Guild in the series or the movie, so I'm wondering why it seems to be so to you?

I agree absolutely that evil is subjective. It's also subjective to our current social mores as opposed to what might be the accepted norm in the future, which makes it difficult to say what would or would not be construed as evil in that time frame. All very interesting :o)

2X2

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Personally I do not care about wether it is good or not. I see it as a business, not necessarily evil, but not utopic either.

If it goes the extra mile to protect its member is that evil or the right thing to do? If it yields its influence to protect itself and its members, is that evil, or is it what needed to be done?

'good' and 'evil' are completely subjective terms, and how you see one or the other would be completely dependent on which side of the situation you happened to be on. Just like history is written by the victors :o)

Quote:
Even Blue Sun is not a "Wolfram & Hart". it is not a Big Bad, but a corporation. It helps some people, steps on others depending on where it's business priorities lie.

(didn't watch Angel or Buffy, or wherever Wolfram and Hart came from, but) I might argue with you on that point. There were hints that Blue Sun was involved in what happened to River, and if it was, I'd consider that that would make them a 'Big Bad' in my books. I don't think that simply because they are a buisness following their business priorities that they're excluded from being 'bad'. But again, it's my own subjective view on what's good or bad :o)

Quote:
The whole verse is set in a grey void where nothing is necessarily good or evil. Acts are ambigious.

I think that can be said of life, in general :o)

Quote:
The issue I have is where if the Guild has shady practices, fic writers generally make Inara olivious to them. (or they make her "evil", which goes against the character...)

She is not naive.

No, she's not, but I couldn't see her supporting the Guild if she knew it was involved in 'shady practices' either... so, to me that presents only two options: 1) The Guild is involved in shady practices that Inara doesn't know about, or 2) The Guild is not involved in any shady practices. :o) Because, yeah, 'evil' is out of character for her.

2X2

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
And then there is her offer to help fence the lassiter. She also has contacts. in the criminal realm.

I never actually saw this as indication that she had contacts in the criminal world, but rather that she would know of some private collectors who would be very interested in obtaining an item as precious as the lassiter and that she would make some discreet inquiries to discover if there was any interest. Granted, it would be an illegal deal, which I guess technically would make them criminals, but I'm thinking that's not quite the way in which you intended the word ;o)

SPACEANJL

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:55 PM

The thing about indentured servants is a very interesting point. I read it as being akin to certain early medieval practices, whereby someone would contract as a servant (NOT a slave) for a set length of time, usually in payment of a debt.

I like the fact that people do recognise that the world comes in shades of grey. It would be too simplistic to write off everyone on one side of a line as good, and all others as evil. It's more that everyone has an agenda.

The Guild may well be a thorn in the side of government, because it is a body apart, with a deal of influence. There are all sorts of interpretations. Joss wrote that Inara stands for what is good and admirable about the Core. 'enlightenment, education, self-possession, feminism' Which is not to say that greed, self-interest and insular bigotry don't exist there, too.

2X2

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I agree that it's a moral compromise, but on the other hand, we could start a discussion about the exact nature of indentured servitude as opposed to slavery and the many facets of that. (Indentured servitude being, apparently, time-limited and an imposed punishment for something.)

Just thought I'd jump in here to say... I read ... somewhere, that the terra forming companies never would have been able to afford the massive costs of terra forming planets for habitation were it not for the use of indentured labour. (might have been the Roleplaying book)

Indentured servitude can be seen from both sides as well - to a dirt poor rim worlder, with no prospect of a better life, five years of indentured servitude in exchange for their own piece of land on a freshly terraformed planet may be an ideal situation *shrug* Unless it is strictly a form of punishment... then I guess you might look at it as a way to pay back a debt to society?? :o)

Like you said, it's obviously a prefectly acceptable practice in the Firefly verse, and it's our perceptions of what's right and wrong by today's standards that make us see it as wrong. Just as we no longer consider it acceptable for 13 year old girls to be married off to 45 year old men as was common practice not all that long ago in our own history :o)

It's what makes this discussion difficult, IMO, because we're making 'judgements' based on today's morals and social mores, which are bound to be different in the future that is the Firefly verse. But still very interesting ;o)

2X2

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:39 PM

2X2

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
The thing about indentured servants is a very interesting point. I read it as being akin to certain early medieval practices, whereby someone would contract as a servant (NOT a slave) for a set length of time, usually in payment of a debt.

That's exactly how I was thinking of it too... which, if entered into willingly is not such a bad thing....

Quote:
The Guild may well be a thorn in the side of government, because it is a body apart, with a deal of influence.

Yeah :o) this is how I've liked to think of them, too. They are a separate entity, they may have regulations imposed upon them by the Alliance goverment, but with power and influence in their own right, which they can bring to bear when necessary.

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:48 PM

I second the question to Alliethorn - why do you think the Guild is secretive? About what?

Re Inara's vial - I believe the point of that was to give her a chance of surviving a Reaver attack. The Reavers would rape her and die, and she might survive, which is the episode that Tim roughly described. OK, so... Why would the Guild expect a Companion to be in this situation? Is that really what they meant it for? Who knows!

I don't think Inara's deal with Ath would have been indentured servitude. (Is that what you meant?) He thought of it that way, but he obviously misunderstood Companions, as Inara made clear to him after the duel. If she had stayed with him, it would have been a business deal, and I firmly believe she'd of had the power to end it if he mistreated her. There would be Guild laws for that. (No proof of this, but it seems so obvious to me, given what she told Ath.)

So - is the Guild evil? I certainly don't think so. I definitely think there could be groups within it who are up to bad things. I've been intrigued by the power they could hold if they tried, and have all kinds of ideas what Joss could have done with that. But the organization as a whole? I highly doubt it.

The interesting thing for me is that this is an entirely woman-run thing. There could be male Companions (as seems to be the case in the movie) but Joss says that every House is run by a woman. I've heard many woman (in real life) say that our own world and government would be entirely different if woman were running things I don't entirely agree with that, I think power corrupts everyone - but, in general, women do have a different way of handling conflict, and a different kind of lust for power.

But (whew, long-winded!) it's possible that the Guild is a way for Joss to play with the idea of an organization run by women, and to challenge our assumption that all large groups must be evil.

After all, he did minor in women's studies. You know that he thinks about these things...

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 6:05 PM

If you have ever read any history books about the Geisha, the Companion's Guild would make perfect sense to you.

The guild exists to protect itself and it's members. Training houses bring honor to the individual houses and its members as well as power, wealth and influence to the house leaders.

They are secretive to protect themselves from competition and to generate an aura of mystique...which increases the value of a companion.

It was quite obvious to me that there is more than pleasure in the companion agenda. While everyone remembers Inara's vial, nobody seems to mention YaSaphBrig's special "lip gloss". It is yet ANOTHER CHEMICAL that acts on SOMEONE ELSE and NOT the user.

Yo had companion training...Inara was AMAZED at how well she was trianed. So that means 1. pleasure (the obvious), 2. entertainment (tea ceremony, balls, social events), 3. use of chemicals and poisons, 4. observation of people and events, 5. sociology and psychology, 6. manipulation of individuals, and 7. political intruige are ALL part of companion training. It is my personal suspicion that they may also be trained assassins...but trained to be VERY stealthy and subtle so no suspicion could be cast on the companion guild. A very small percentage of companions would actually receive this very high level training. It would make perfect sense that Inara may have been initially contacted for this type of work, but decided it was wrong and she would rather make her living on the rim. (Much as I suspect Shepard Book was a former operative).

Companions use this training for their own personal gain as well as promoting the continuation of the guild system. Belonging to the guild gives them status (Nandy did not have this "status" since going on her own), connections, and protection (the guild black mark system, etc..). In return, I am sure they pay HEFTY fees to the guild, or a commision to their training house for each client.

It does seem to be modeled a touch on the geisha system of historic japan, as well as a bit of Dune's Bene Gesserit training thrown in for fun.

~~~~~

"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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