Children on Serenity - practicable?
POSTED BY: AgentRouka
UPDATED: Thursday, April 26, 2007 02:10
VIEWED: 11786
PAGE 3 of 5
Education would be secondary to SAFETY. Children can be educated in many places and ways...tutors, online classes, parent home-based instuction, one room school houses etc. It takes a village after all. Older students can board if necessary. I've NEVER met a parent that didn't want the very best opportunities, for their children, that education can provide, that includes parent gangbangers to elected circut judges. They all beam at the Graduation!
I think safety would be their biggest concern(as it is currently.) Look carefully.
Wash was really starting to question Zoe's blind obedience to her old war sarge ("not so often with death-defying and ducking morals"). He was worried and rightly so, we know the outcome of that scenario. Would he have agreed to a helpless little one? Probaby not. Would Zoe go against his wishes? Not likely. She respects her husband and was herself questioning Mal's motives and decisions by the movie("like that man back there?") Under the circumstances, unless they weren't careful, I don't think there would have been a child in their future. Let's be realistic; they would gotten off, found other work, lived a different life that included raising children in a somewhat safe enviroment.
Simon and Kaylee are a different story, but have the same dilemma. Kaylee is idealisticly naive and Simon is only on Serenity because he's on the run. A child in their life would be a disaster and would be at risk for all kinds of mayhem. Until Simon's warrants are revoked and his name cleared, he won't be thinking of a baby, unless Kaylee is unprotected. If she does become pregnant, and they do have a choice. I think they would choose to leave, also. Simon and Kaylee, the parents, with him as the country doc is one of my future dreams for them.
It is hard to speculate about the Captain and Inara because they are so driven by their passion for each other that they can't make a logical decision to save their lives. I must say though, they both love that ship for the same reason, for the freedom it provides. They have no reason to leave. They did converse on fatherhood...so I don't know. The shuttle could provide a safe haven and Inara isn't crew...so maybe?
Unless Serenity becomes a safer home for grown-ups, I certainly hope there are no children involved.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
What will Zoe do? Probably just put her foot down, at which point Wash will cave, because he loves her and can't stand not to give her something she wants so badly. But hey--Zoe's no dupe. I wouldn't put deviousness beyond her. She thinks she's right, and that means she's going to get what she wants, one way or another.
Except that kind of thing would totally put an end to their marriage.
Conceiving a child, purposefully, against a partner's wishes is such a breach of trust, I can almost liken it to rape.
It's one thing if it happened accidentally, but children are such a huge, life-altering committment, that this isn't a decision where one can simply "put one's foot down" or trick one's partner.
Wash's views are just as legitimate as Zoe's, and no amount of biological craving should make her disconnected from reality enough to disrespect him in such a profound way.
I honestly don't think that any bt the most mentally unstable women would do that.
So if Zoe resorted to that - and I think unless she went completely insane, I don't see her doing that - I think we'd be looking at a story arc of betrayel and its outcomes: love breaking apart, resentment, pain and... custody battles?
Which would be interesting, storytelling-wise, but the ultimate point would be set pretty much against the having of children in that way.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Superfluous:
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I agree: that is the most wonderful banner I've ever seen!
And after Angel's son was born Joss said he would never work with a baby on the set again...
he could let Zoe get pregnant, but I'm thinking there would have been some kind of tragedy so the whole business of babies on board wouldn't have had to be dealt with.....
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Not just possible, but probably a better and more secure childhood than many of us had. No other kids to play with, that's a drawback, but the security of always having a parent or two around, a brilliant MD on call 24/7, and the coolest bunch of aunts and uncles ever.
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Another thing that makes me wonder...
Some people seem to just assign roles to the crew in raising the baby, regardless of who had the child and why.
What if they didn't want those jobs?
After all, if Zoe and Wash decided (against probability) to have a baby, why would Inara suddenly turn into a teacher or babysitter? Or why would they count on her taking on that job to make the idea practicable? Would River want to do that just because someone else decided to procreate?
Any of the crew are, theoretically, free to leave any time, so the would-be parents, should - in a responsible hypothesis - take care to be able to arrange for all eventuelities independently, without just "burdening" the others (even if they MIGHT freely take on those jobs if asked.)
A child wouldn't be just a decision for the parents themselves, they would be making a change in everyone's lives.
Would it be fair and ehtical for any set of potential parents to - unless it truly is an accident - have a child on Serenity without first discussing all the options with the whole crew? Or at least Mal and anyone directly affected by the changes and/or their expectations?
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Quote:
Originally posted by mojave:
Not just possible, but probably a better and more secure childhood than many of us had. No other kids to play with, that's a drawback, but the security of always having a parent or two around, a brilliant MD on call 24/7, and the coolest bunch of aunts and uncles ever.
More secure, when most of their jobs could end in shootings that could easily leave one of the parents dead at the drop of a hat?
And something tells me that when the parent that's around always pretty busy flying the ship or whatever else their job on Serenity is, well... the no other children issue would become pretty important.
Realistically speaking, I just don't see how it would be better, beside the fannish "Ooh, life on Serenity!" factor.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arcadia:
No direspect taken.
Maybe it is my age, but I veiw the idea of Zoe -- or anyone, fictional or otherwise -- resorting to tricking their partner into having a baby by "forgetting" birthcontrol as completely and utterly insane. And taking into account Zoe's character, I just don't believe that its an action Zoe would ever take. I'm a little bit thrown that its even been suggested. But then, I think that comes across in my first post. I hope I didn't overly offend you.
Not at all! (Well, maybe a little, but I'm totally over it now
) For the record, I don't think Zoe will resort to tricks. I'm not saying that she wouldn't if pushed hard enough, but I just don't think that'd happen. She'd make clear to Wash how much she wanted a baby, and eventually I think he'd cave in to give his wife something that would make her all kinds of happy. And I think that Mal knows better than to say "no" to something like that. He's not losing Zoe--she's practically the only person n the 'verse that understands him.________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
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Hey all:
Really interesting thread. I appeciate reading everyone's POV :)
Re: parents in dangerous situations -- well, people who risk death on Earth do have kids -- soldiers, firefighters, cops, mountain climbers. I don't know any parent who has given up driving after having kids, even though that's got to be pretty much the most dangerous activity the average citizen is likely to undertake. Inara and Kaylee don't regularly put their lives on the line, so I don't think they would consider themselves to be living particularly dangerous lives, and Zoe is career military, so I'm pretty sure she decided long ago there was no insurmountable conflict between her gun-toting job and a family.
Re: Zoe getting pregnant against Wash's wishes -- I don't think she was saying she would, she was shutting off the discussion because she knew she wouldn't be swayed by such an argument. And I don't think it's exactly against Wash's wishes, anyway. I think he'd like to be a dad, it's just that he thinks of this job as a temporary thing, so it would make sense to wait until it's over. If and when he realizes that Zoe is going to be gun-toting, one way or another, for the rest of her career, I think he'll kind of sigh and say, ok, then, why not now. (And post-BDM, this becomes moot anyway.)
Re: involuntary child care -- I agree no one else on Serenity is obliged to babysit, but they're as close as family, so I think they'd all want to, at least some of the time. And as I mentioned in my previous post, I think they could get a nanny or au pair pretty cheap, especially on a border moon where there isn't much work available.
Re: unsafe surroundings -- I understand that farms and ranches are some of the most unsafe places for kids, because of all the equipment and germs and large animals, but I don't think anyone would say that no one should ever raise a child on one. Same would apply to Serenity. And I'm sure a child would learn pretty quick what he/she was allowed to touch and what he/she wasn't.
Re: education -- What with the Cortex and all, I'm sure all the book-learning that might be desired would be available, 24 hours a day, not to mention what the child could learn directly about flying, engine repair, trauma medicine, surgery, the Companion arts, forgery, guns, etc. (Again, not that anyone would be obliged to teach, but can you imagine any of them saying no to a kid who was practically a nephew or niece and was interested?) At some point, the child might be interested in something he/she couldn't learn aboard ship, but that would be years away, around the same time Earth kids start looking into specialized academies or other institutes of higher learning.
Re: socialization -- The idea of a kid being raised without a whole bunch of other kids the same age around strikes us as weird, but I don't think it'd necessarily be damaging. Babies and toddlers don't need other kids yet anyway -- they want grown-up attention -- and by the time the first child was pre-school age and able to play with others, there could well be a sibling around. I remember from the Little House on the Prairie books that the Ingalls sisters spent most of their elementary childhood with no playmates but each other, and they seemed to have turned out alright. Plus, Serenity seems to have semi-regular shipping routes to a number of planets and moons, such as Haven, so maybe there would be regular opportunities to play with others (kind of like playing with cousins you only see at Christmas).
All that said, I'm only talking about whether it would be possible in "real" life. As a TV show, I could see that having a baby/toddler/pre-schooler/etc. kid on board year after year would make for real headaches in filming and plotline (with viewers alternately arguing that "everything has changed with a baby on board and it sucks" and "nothing has changed with a baby on board and that's totally unrealistic"). I think Joss could pull it off, if he wanted to, and I would absolutely love to see how our BDH's would handle the parenting stage of l
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I've been following this discussion, quite fascinated by any rumination on where life might take our BDHs. It's been awhile, but I was too interested to resist throwing in my two cents.
Frankly, I was shocked during "Heart of Gold" when I heard Zoe talking about a baby on board (and not just because she said "Period."). Does she not remember that time the ship was chased by Reavers? Or when Niska's big hulking guy came in the cargo bay throwing sharp things? Or a Reaver-victim running around with a scalpel? Or perhaps Badger invading with armed goons? Or the honking great fire and then near-death by asphyxiation? That's without even going into the constant threat of incarceration, which, if there were kids on board, would probably end with them in foster care or something similar.
And surely Zoe doesn't think that the next time Serenity docks on some raging psychopathic crime boss's skyplex, the munchkin can just chill on the bridge and play with the dinosaurs until Mummy and Daddy are finished with their crazy-dangerous rescue mission.
Granted, there's some degree of risk associated with any and every walk of life. Also granted: soldiers and firefighters have kids all the time. But soldiers don't bring their infants to the front line and carry them in baby slings through the trenches.
It's not just that our BDHs lead dangerous lives. It's that the ship itself is not a safe or stable environment. Mal deals with nasty people, and his ship is a tool for crime as well as a home. Everyone on it is in mortal danger quite regularly. At the moment, they are all (with the possible exception of River) autonomous adults who have chosen to live that way. An infant would have no such choice. Also, I think there's a difference between the farm life brand of dangerous, where there are plenty of accidents waiting to happen, and the outlaw brand of dangerous, where people are actively trying to kill you.
Kids would limit the crew's options just as much as fugitives have. How can you justify bringing toddlers within a hundred yards of someone like Niska, or even Badger? Serenity would probably have to go legitimate, and that can't happen until the Tams are completely in the clear. Nor will it happen until Mal decides it's going to, which isn't high on his list of things to do. As has been said, he's not required to change his lifestyle because someone on his crew wants to start a family.
Long story short: I believe the safety issues make it unfeasible to raise kids on Serenity.
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Firefly follows the wild west theme - it was dangerous there, but people still had kids.
Obviously more risk in the black - but the population has to continue somehow. Part of the wild west heritage.
Saying that, I still dislike this type of fic. Actually I seem to not like any fic set too far after the BDM - but I think that is unrelated :)
Ofcourse there is also the question of who has the kids. There is no combination I can see working.
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