Children on Serenity - practicable?

Children on Serenity isn't a bad idea in my opinion.
I mean, I know Serenity isn't exactly the safest palce in the world, but the child could stay in the kitchen, it seems to me that the only really dangerous places for a child would be the cargo bay and the engine room, and possibly the cock-pit.
An education wouldn't be a problem, River and Simon could certainly be capable of teaching a child, i mean, they are geniuses. Plus one of them is always someone on the ship during a job, so they could easily watch a child.
Zoe may not have been thinking rationaly about having a child, but as she said: "I ain't so scared of loosing something, that I ain't gonna to try and have it." She wants a child with Wash, and I don't think that the impractibility of a child growing up on a ship would stop her.

As for who would have the child, Zoe of course. Either she was pregnant before The horrible events of Serenity occured, or she got some DNA and impregnated herself, there is a perfectly capable doctor on board, and Alliance cruisers, with high tech medical facilities, within close proximity for an extended period of time before Serenity left Mr. Universe's planet-type-thing.


No power in the 'verse can stop me.

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Originally posted by Causal:
Seems to me that biology will always trump common sense. You get that biological clock ticking, and baby is on the way, period. I reckon Zoe would have found a way to make it work. I don't know how, but I'm thinking that the animal urge to procreate would have over-ruled the practical concerns of an environment full of sharp, hard things.

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That and kids make good Human shields because they struggle less.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
You mean to say she would have gone against Wash's wishes in making that baby?

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No, as in she would have overruled him, and he would have accepted it. Or--"oops, guess I must have forgotten to take my space-aged birth-control pills!"

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Not that she isn't already a little creepy in that scene (and I say this as someone who loves Zoe madly), all dismissing his logical counter-arguments as if his opinion doesn't matter, but that's an interesting theory you have there! Oy.

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If you honestly think that logical arguments are going to silence the biological urge to procreate you have got another think coming. Seriously, people have children in all kinds of crazy and unstable environments and not because they're thinking, "Gee, at least we have earth-norm!" It's because the human drive to procreate is just about the most powerful urge we have. God-given, nature-selected--take your pick. It's like when you're madly in love. You do stupid things, illogical things--even dangerous things. Same deal here. There's a biological/emotional force that's overruling a woman who is otherwise coldly calculating. Would it be practical to have babies aboard Serenity? Probably not. Would it be practicable? I'm guessing Zoe would find a way.

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Originally posted by Causal:
If you honestly think that logical arguments are going to silence the biological urge to procreate you have got another think coming.

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Well, no, logic isn't going to cancel out a person's urge to have a kid, but lets credit women with some self-control here. The be all and end all of our existance isn't the make babies and most of us are not going to go crazy and trick men into getting us pregnant, as has been implied -- if not stated -- in this thread.

Let us especially credit a woman like Zoe, with her soldier's dicsipline, as someone who is blessed with a measure of restraint. She deeply, deeply respects Wash. Like, seriously folks, Zoe and Wash have a commitment that is based in the upmost love and respect. She wouldn't resort to a dumb, immature, irresponsible "forgot to take my pills" trick in order to get pregnant. I don't think she's the kind of person who would want a baby that way. She's the kind of person who would want her parent to want to have a baby with her, who would want that love and support. Which isn't to say that she would shy away from an unexpected pregnancy either. She wouldn't. But, well, if you can have a baby under the best of circumstances with the love, support, and shared anticipation of your partner, why elect and alternative?

If she was the type of person who would resort to such a cheap trick, then why hasn't she yet? It was implied in HoG that the argument they were having over a child was becoming an old argument, afterall. Still, "forgetting" to take pills to trick Wash into having a baby? Completely ooc for Zoe.

Okay, not that that rant is over, moving on...

Children on Serenity...

For the sake or argument, I am assuming cannon pairings: Mal/Inara, Kaylee/Simon, Zoe/Wash.

As was pointed out earlier, Mal might be inclined to feel that Serenity is just as safe a place as any planet, all things considered. And Kaylee, bless her, is so optimistic that I think she would honestly believe that she could raise a baby on a space ship and everything would be shiny. Zoe, we know, thinks it can be done.

The problem is their assumed partners. We know Wash is squeamish about raising a kid around such violence. Simon, I think, would also object, though since he does not have a job that puts him directly in danger, and nor does Kaylee, that might effect his thinking. I think he and Inara would object more over education. I really don't buy the "River could teach them!" argument. She's a genius, but I don't think she's a teacher. Nor is Simon, at all. Inara, maybe, but would she want to be? And there is something to be said for wanting your kids to grow up around other kids, for the social lessons they can learn that way. Certainly a Companion would be aware of that.

Really, I think there would be a great discrepency in terms of how the prospective parents viewed their children's futures and potentials.

Zoe and Wash have the greatest chance of agreeing on what upbringing and education level they are going to provide their child with. They are both working class, educated but not overly so, and would probably aspire to have their children educated to they same level they are, or perhaps slightly higher. If all their kids ended up in flight school, it would suit them just fine.

Simon and Kaylee, Mal and Inara, they are more complicated because of class and educational differences.

We'll start with Simon and Kaylee. One of them is a mechanic with little schooling and the other is a doctor who mounds of it. So, what would they want for their child? College prep education? I think there is a good chance of this. As quick as Kaylee is to defend her "rim-ness", I think she is very aware of the education she didn't have. She knows that she is an intellegent person, that if she had been born on the Core she could have been a doctor, too. Or, if she doesn't, I think Simon would recognize this. Plus, Kaylee - in contrast to Mal - is fascinated by the workings of the higher class. She is charmed by Inara's shut

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No disrespect, but I think you took my post a little bit too personally. My point was that Zoe, although normally cool, collected, and rational, is clearly determined to have a baby on a smuggling ship. Clearly, her biological drives are a factor here. I am not saying that women go crazy and do whatever it takes to have kids, and I'm more than a little disappointed that that's how you read that. My point is, biologically speaking, the urge to procreate is deeply seated in the human psyche (male and female), and the mere fact that you live on a space ship isn't going to change that one tiny little bit. What will Zoe do? Probably just put her foot down, at which point Wash will cave, because he loves her and can't stand not to give her something she wants so badly. But hey--Zoe's no dupe. I wouldn't put deviousness beyond her. She thinks she's right, and that means she's going to get what she wants, one way or another.

But then again, it's hard to mate with a dead man.

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No direspect taken.

Maybe it is my age, but I veiw the idea of Zoe -- or anyone, fictional or otherwise -- resorting to tricking their partner into having a baby by "forgetting" birthcontrol as completely and utterly insane. And taking into account Zoe's character, I just don't believe that its an action Zoe would ever take. I'm a little bit thrown that its even been suggested. But then, I think that comes across in my first post. I hope I didn't overly offend you.

Arcadia (aka Greyfable and/or Katie)
www.stillflying.net -- picking up Firefly were Joss left off. We will hold 'til he gets back.

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I think that if a child was introduced to firefly then it would be a part that only lasted a few episodes - for example for one job Mal is being paid to protect a baby from Alliance BlueSun - Jayne starts bonding with the baby lots of funny parts - Jayne is left heart broken after the Alliance leaves and kid has to go back.

As for Wash and Zoe its impratical - Zoe would be too protective to risk dangering a child in some of the situations they are in. Wash could take care of Wash jr. on the bridge but on a long term schedule the kid will only become annoying (sort of like in ER with that nurse and son) and a lot of "dangerous job plots" would have to be excluded because of risks to the child.

Think of the Serenity Movie plus a kid.
Wash: Im a leaf ... no dont touch that ... hsa a fight over his plactic dinosaurs ... kid hits a switch ... firefly plummets to earth, kid goes throught winsheild.
Wash: I told you not to touch those.
Zoe kills Wash for not taking care of Wash jr. then ditches Mal to open an orphanage. Meanwhile, Simon and River are being eaten by reavers and Joss is wondering where his script went wrong.

Im sorry I just cant see a long term kid in firefly
(this was not a rant - just taking time off writing a 1000 word essay on Antigone and where Creon went wrong)

Its really boring
really really boring

(falls asleep)

wakes up

Yeah and Zoe loves Wash too much to trick him into having a child. She would at least tell him first

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I think Mal and Inara still have a lot of development to go through before we talk of them having kids but it might be the perfect situation for them to soften toward eachother if Zoe or Simon and Kaylee have a baby.

Imagine the following events in a new season of series:

Zoe discovers she's pregnant from before poor Wash's death and/or Simon and Kaylee have an oops baby--could have lots of drama but I think they could work it out, get married, etc. in the long run

Inara takes on babysitting as a part-time job (in the extras, Joss did say Inara was the most educated and she has teaching experience from the academy)

Mal sees how cute Inara and the baby are together

Inara's biological clock starts ticking, thinkin she might like her own as well as gets tired of servicing virgins and "rich men with stamina"

Inara is engaged by an alliance creep just to find the rest of the crew and seeing as Inara's not going to help the alliance capture the crew, she gets thrown out of the companion guild

Rather than be a common whore, she would probably find a career change to daycare more appealing and this would finally open the door to a deeper relationship with Mal that could lead to children of their own

Pretty soon they'll have to trade in the firefly for a bumblebee but I don't think Inara and Mal would ever settle on a planet because they both love freedom so much. I could see Kaylee and Simon settled on a planet but after Serenity's events, they're still on the alliance's wanted list and any child they left with a wet mom would probably abducted and used to try to capture the crew

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I think that it would be kinda cool (although very cliche) if in any possible upcoming series/movie Zoe did wind up pregnant from Wash before he'd died. It would also be highly amusing to see how the crew would react if that would happen. Espeically Mal and Jayne who would probably freak out about the idea of a baby on board the ship.

Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: Oh God, of God, we're all going to die?

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