No, THIS is what going crazy must feel like.
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 26, 2026 18:21
VIEWED: 13059
PAGE 14 of 15
Quote:As far as I know, every poll backs it up.
Originally posted by SignyM:
FINN: Do you have any POLLS to back this up? For xample, a month after 9-11, who did "the American people" think was responsible? Tell you what: Post a poll taken within three months of 9-11 showing Saddam as the culprit and I'll concede the point.
Opinion Dynamics poll in late November 2001
Q: How likely do you think it is that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks?
79% Very or Somewhat Likely
Opinion Dynamics poll in late October 2001
Q: How likely do you think it is that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks?
79% Very or Somewhat Likely
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,39817,00.html
Harris Interactive did a similar poll in September, 2001 that came to the same result, but I can’t find it on their website, because they only go back to 2004. However, I did find a Time article discussing the Harris Interactive Poll, which states:
“A majority also associate Saddam Hussein with the attacks. 34% of those polled believe his involvement is very likely and 44% somewhat likely.”
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,174941,00.html
Those were the polls done shortly after the attacks in 2001. Many others have been done and show that the American public always had Saddam on the shortlist of culprits, in fact they display almost the same distribution. And like I said, it’s not hard to see why.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Well, I concede the point then! Good work on bird-dogging the issue.
Still waiting for Auraptor on the issue of WMD.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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SignyM -
Quote:
Yes, a few dozen decades-old shells or canisters here and there, found abandoned in bunkers, a few buried parts, totalling up to maybe several hundred unmaintained pieces of mostly unuseable items. (A few canisters of mustard gas were prolly still viable.) And the reason WHY the UN didn't write a final report is because they never got to finish their inpsection. USA bombing drove them out- remember? So they let the Americans finish the inspection. If you recall, David Kay, one of the USA members of the UNMOVIC inspection team (along with Scott Ritter) was a man highly motivated to find WMD. But the Kay/ Duelfer report had to conclude that while they found evidence of some remains of a program, there was no active WMD production. I bring that to your attemtion because I assume you would trust a complete American report over an in-process UN report. So, can we both conclude that there was no WMD production?
A few dozen shells? Try over 500 chem war head shells. And it doesn't matter HOW old they were, after 12 yrs of 'inspecting', somehow those things and a host of other items still were found. They weren't too concerned about those being found, so it leads us to wonder what they WERE hiding. Sure, Saddam might have dismantled his wmd production ...until the inspectors had left for good. It was a waiting ame, and Saddam figured he was at the point of winning. He figured wrong.
As for the ' true story' in China, I'm sorry to hear that. I'll bet there were at least a few of their countrymen who died in that attack, not that they seem to care. On the flip side, I know some folks who were traveling through Europe on 9/11, and the reactions were quite different. There were candle light vigils and services for the victims where ever they went, and when the locals found out they were Americans, tears of sorrow welled up . Maybe they were older Europeans, who remember it was the USA that sacrificed so many of her finest to help end the war, and free the continent, but at least they saw the savagery of those attacks and shared in our tragedy.
Frem
Quote:
"Liberal" press my ass, that particular myth is as bad as anything you'd find on snopes, repeated experiments and investigations have proven that's anything but true, just beatin a dead horse on that one, I guess the righteywhiteys figure if they say it often enough, folks might actually start to believe that tripe.
It's no myth. Not even close. 80% of the print, t.v. media consider themselves to be Democrats. Dan Rather ring a bell ? That stunt he pulled before the 2004 election is more than proof enough. In a recent AP report , it referenced the Dems beginning to work on the budget , and trying to " clean up the mess" left by the GOP. Yeah, that's 'UNBIASED' reporting. The Liberal slant int he news has gotten so bad, even FOX NEWS is drifting from the centre to the Left.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:What's your point? This stuff was left behind accidentally during and after the ignominious defeat of 1991. In the meantime, the United States blew up some WMD and Saddam had most of the rest- thousands of liters of anthrax, Sarin, and thousands of shells- destroyed. As a percentage of the total WMD, as few hundred was mighty small. The country was "broom clean". Unfortunately, nobody ever produced an accounting of the destruction.
A few dozen shells? Try over 500 chem war head shells. And it doesn't matter HOW old they were, after 12 yrs of 'inspecting', somehow those things and a host of other items still were found.
Quote:How do you know they 'weren't concerned'? This seems to be more of your own mental construct than anything, so if you have some real info to share, please do.
They weren't too concerned about those being found, so it leads us to wonder what they WERE hiding.
Quote:So in the end you're saying we invaded not for what Saddam was doing, not for what he had, but for what he might do several years in the future. Right?
Sure, Saddam might have dismantled his wmd production ...until the inspectors had left for good. It was a waiting game, and Saddam figured he was at the point of winning. He figured wrong.
www.fair.org/index.php?page=1845
Quote:Are you refering to that stereotype of the Chinks who don't value human life?
As for the ' true story' in China, I'm sorry to hear that. I'll bet there were at least a few of their countrymen who died in that attack, not that they seem to care.
Quote:Yes, yes, we all know about that. If you go to Europe today, you'll find an entirely different sentiment.
On the flip side, I know some folks who were traveling through Europe on 9/11, and the reactions were quite different. There were candle light vigils and services for the victims where ever they went, and when the locals found out they were Americans, tears of sorrow welled up . Maybe they were older Europeans, who remember it was the USA that sacrificed so many of her finest to help end the war, and free the continent, but at least they saw the savagery of those attacks and shared in our tragedy.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:Actually it does matter how old they were, because biological and chemical weapons have a 'use by date', as do Nuclear weapons, actually. And the "if they let us find that what were they actually hiding" thing is a pure fallacy. You openly post on this website, so what websites are you hiding?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And it doesn't matter HOW old they were, after 12 yrs of 'inspecting', somehow those things and a host of other items still were found.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Rap, Every single thing you post is a recycled talking point. Do you have any thoughts to call your own?
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Quote:
Friday, February 16, 2007 03:30
Rap, Every single thing you post is a recycled talking point. Do you have any thoughts to call your own?
Why did you even waste time posting this ? It's the most inane, ridiculous and blatently baseless thing in this thread. There's no need for me to even try to respond, this is so absurd.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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But of course, Auraptor, you have no time to answer the real questions that were posed to you.
So, let me recap your arguments and then create a better argument for you side.
You have said, at various times:
Saddam had current WMD
Saddam had active WMD programs/ production
Saddam had old WMD
Saddam wasn't folliwng the UN mandate to report WMD destruction
Saddam hid real WMD but let us find old WMD
Saddam didn't have WMD, but he would develop them as soon as possible
Some of your arguments destroy your other arguments. For example, if he had an active WMD program (production) why would he hide old stuff? Or, if he had a real program going, why would he let us find the old stuff instead of just reporting on the previous destruction and getting us off his back so he could continue production w/o interference? Why would he lay out just enough suspicious items to put us on alert? As Jayne said "It don't make sense."
Since your arguments are a hopeless self-cancelling mess, let me rephrase them in a way that makes more sense.
Before the Gulf War, Saddam had an active WMD program that in 1991 surprised everyone with it's strength and size. Routine monitoring for WMD production didn't trip any warnings, therefore it's clear that "routine" monitoring programs are useless. At the same time, we were given a clear signal that Saddam could and would develop WMD programs in earnest and in secret, and use those WMD in war.
The liftring of sanctions and dual-use industrial capabilities might allow reactivation of these programs once the sanctions were lifted, and in a milieu of increased trade and economic activity detecting transfers of sensitive materiel and suspicious activity would be harder than before. Therefore it was imperative that Iraq be invaded before the sanctions were lifted.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Rap,
I just asked it on this thread 'cause I asked it on other threads but you never answered. But it's true. Everything you say is from elsewhere - either the WH or the right-wingnuts. So I was wondering how you got to be that way.
Well it's true ...
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Sig - Your display of faux logic is dizzying. I can't keep up w/ the bogus crap you claim I made, when what I have said is blatently clear. Saddam , the bad guy, and the one whose country was in vialation of multiple UN resolutions and cease fire agreements stemming back to the 1st Gulf War. Us finding anything connected to his WMD program wasn't " Iraq letting us find anything. They kept those things from us, and we found them. Case closed.
rue - You're wrong. Sorry. Even if you were to imply that all I post HERE, in RWED is nothing but copied talking points, you'd still be wrong.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME