Evolutionary Debate
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 16:16
VIEWED: 20170
PAGE 12 of 20
Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
As for physics, if the physical world was unfit for the development of life then we wouldn't be here, the reason it seems to us that it is designed perfectly is because as far as we can tell no other set up will work. There is no reason to believe that a different combination of physical forces would not produce a stable universe that functions just as well as this one.
Yes - maybe Earth's (or another planet's) dominant creature could have been a sulfer-based rock-eater instead. Wouldn't that be neat?
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Sooooooooo........
Everybody bashes me while I'm gone, but has nothing to say while I'm here.... right.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Sooooooooo........
Everybody bashes me while I'm gone, but has nothing to say while I'm here.... right.
We can bash you if you'd like, no problem, you really want us to?
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Quote:Because RWED is dominated by people who attack anyone who QUESTIONS their beliefs. It doesn't matter what those beliefs are: Al-Qaeda, 9/11, Bush, health care, socialism, global warming, vaccines, government, evolution, God/deity, paranormal experiences, etc. What they believe is true, and if you question or doubt any part of it, you are automatically labeled as ANTI-their-position.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I'm wondering why I'm getting all the shit about not being open minded here...
Bottom line is that the science people are on the attack.
It's the old "you're either for me or against me" mentality. You either believe in global warming, or you are denying it. You either love Bush or hate Bush. You either want everyone to vaccinate or want no one to vaccinate. You either support evolution in its entirety, or you are some anti-evolution quack. There is no agnosticism, skepticism, negotiation, or middle ground with these folks.
But--RWED has a lot of intelligent, rational, and articulate people as well. And it is for their opinions that makes a visit to RWED worth one's time. I've met a lot of nice people I admire here, including you, 6ix. So don't let them get you down. And keep up the good fight for freedom.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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You happend to be very civil in your disputes to my comments and I appreciate that. We do happen to see pretty much eye to eye on most of it too I think. If it makes you feel better you can bash me if you'd like. I think I was a punching bag for almost everyone in here today..... geez, you'd think it was Monday instead of Friday.
Just one thought on one of your posts:
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Freedom from God isn't the same thing as freedom of the mind
-------------------------------------------------
True, but thinking beyond what you were taught as a child is.
I agree completely with you here, but why do I have a suspicion that that was meant as a jab at me?
Oh, and wrong thread for this, but I'll tell you what I told rue before since you agree with her in regards to mandatory vaccinations. If you stick me with a needle without my consent, I will retaliate with a bullet without your consent. No offense.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Thanks for all that canttakesky. I've had a pretty rough one in here today. I know I'm guilty of being a bit pig headed myself to. We all do that here and in the real world to greater or lesser extents.
I'm just tired of everything needing to be Black or White, and tired of everybody thinking that it's perfectly fine to invade my private life and the choices I make because it's in my best interests.
You're good people..... "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Just one thought on one of your posts:Quote:
-------------------------------------------------Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Freedom from God isn't the same thing as freedom of the mind
-------------------------------------------------
True, but thinking beyond what you were taught as a child is.
I agree completely with you here, but why do I have a suspicion that that was meant as a jab at me?
It was meant as a jab at anyone who blindly follows what they were taught as a child simply because they think it's the "right" way to think. If you fall into that category...
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Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
It was meant as a jab at anyone who blindly follows what they were taught as a child simply because they think it's the "right" way to think. If you fall into that category...
Fair enough.... I think it's pretty evident that I don't.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:Science has absolutely nothing to say on the subject of God, never has and never will. The accusation that science is attacking god is entirely in the minds of the religious who think they're religion must influence all walks of life. I suppose by doing you're own thing when another group is trying to force you otherwise that other group may see that as an attack.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I haven't come at all of the Dawkin supporters with an outrageously religious wrath either, just a big fuck you to anyone who will come out and try to make someone believe that there is no God because science says so.
Quote:For crying out loud. This is a message board, people post things when they're on-line, not when it's convenient to you. Really sorry you weren't on-line earlier, that must be my fault. Oh and you made this comment while I was asleep at twenty past two in the morning:
I think several posts have been twisted around on me here while I was gone and unable to defend myself.
"Everybody bashes me while I'm gone, but has nothing to say while I'm here.... right."
So do I get to bitch because you made comments while I wasn't here now?
Quote:So how come you can't tell the very basic difference between Darwinian natural selection and a biological learning process. Equating bacteria dying unless they have a resistance and as such the resistance becoming more prevalent in the general population and a Human getting a sniffle doesn't say to me that you have this great degree of knowledge on the subject of evolution. If you did you wouldn't be equating the two, unless you were purposefully trying to misrepresent the opposing position with a red herring. In that case I apologise, but I don't think purposefully using logical fallacies to swing debate is any better.
And Cit.. I happen to know a lot about evolution.
Quote:Get what? Be left alone, because that's it. Science has never once, not ONCE attacked religion, it's all come from the other side. That's rare, in fact it's the only time I can ever think that one side is entirely responsible for the conflict.
Bottom line is that the science people are on the attack. They want it all and they won't stop until they get it.
The idea that science is attacking religion is nuts. What's actually happening is Religion keeps coming around to sciences gaff, kicking the door down and stealing science's stuff, smashing up science's TV and telling science what magazines science is a loud to read. Science has not come to religions house and smashed in their front door, science has stood up and calmly said "get out of my house." Religion says that's an attack and this isn't sciences house. Science asks again and again and religion screams louder and louder "Stop attacking me, ohh I'm being oppressed!"
Science IS NOT attacking religion, science is under attack, and is defending itself. It's a credit to science that it doesn't return the attack where religion lives.
Quote:Science has done nothing NOTHING to religion. Never has never will. Science has nothing to say on the subjects of morality, spirituality or God. Those are the soul purviews of religion. The conflict is where religion doesn't just want it's house, it wants sciences too, and science not giving that up and walking away is portrayed as an attack. Yes I believe the term Nazi is very apt here, just not in the way you used it.
I see no difference between what the science people have done to religion and what the smoke Nazis have done to smokers.
Quote:Because when people of religion KNOW something to be true anything that says different (like science) must be crushed.
I really don't know why everything has to be one way or the other, especially considering that most of us are torn on issues and don't agree.
Quote:Yes, there is and it's exactly what WE
I'm sure there is a median that we can find that would make both parties happy, but unless attitudes like the ones in here change, that will never happen.
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Quote:No, there are theories all competing for how how life got started, but even scientist say we probably won't know. You want there to be a double standard as that would weaken evolutions position, but it REALLY is NOT there.
Originally posted by antimason:
no one knows for sure the origins of life on earth, because the data is not conclusive. there is a portion of the field who leave ID open to possibility, because the evidence isnt as cut and dry as you would like to believe Citizen. that seems to me to be a double standard- if it fits your theory, its fact, its proof.. if it suggests otherwise, or casts doubt on any of your prior beliefs, you automatically form a bias against it. i dont deny that species evolve, but i havent seen the 'proof' that Man came from ape millions of years ago.. because it hasnt been proven
The problem with the ape to man thing is that there is proof, very conclusive from DNA to fossil records. DNA alone we can look back in time and through analysis actually see where there was an attempt at an evolutionary split between chimpanzee and Man but that it failed and the two groups re-homogenised. I think that was bought up here earlier. We can see the development from ape like forms to modern human, clearly. If we were to take the sentence "Apes become Humans" and remove the 'o' "Apes Bec_me Humans" most people can still read it, but some people say "There's no proof that that sentence ends with a Human".
Quote:No, I'm fine with people believing in ID, this is what you don't understand, or perhaps don't want to understand. I'm fine with people believing whatever the hell they want to believe, but when they try and portray they're beliefs as science then I have a problem. ID cannot be science, it is fundamentally unscientific, and anyone who understands what science is and what it is all about will tell you the same thing.
and you apparently dont want to consider ID a possibility, that seems to be your lens.. so i could easily say the same for you. ill admit, i want a GOd to exist, and leave that possibility open, based on what i consider to be a compelling lack of evidence for the 'Golem' concept
Also please drop the Golem stuff. I've refuted that already and you didn't have an answer, this is one of the reasons people get tired of your position, we soundly refute something and instead of coming back with an argument for it you just repeat yourself and hope nobody noticed.
Quote:There's plenty of ways, sometimes it's not anything more than an educated guess, like the composition of the earth's crust, we've bounced sound waves through and can make a good estimate of it's composition but we can't know for sure. But even then it's well out of the realm of philosophy and religion, which by they're very nature have NO supporting evidence.
so what can you prove happened billions of years ago? that does not fit into the category of science.. that is as much philosophy as religion is
Quote:All we are saying is ID isn't science. You want to believe in it fine, but don't portray it as science because it isn't.
all we are saying is that things appear to have been intelligently designed, which if it is true, merely serves as a premise to scientific discovery, it doesnt obstruct it in anyway
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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