Reagan won the Cold War, here's proof!
POSTED BY: Skywalken
UPDATED: Saturday, February 24, 2007 02:32
VIEWED: 3987
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The proof is that now even the former commie countries credit him with freeing them from the evil of communism.
Hat tip to Andrew Breitbart's website.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/02/09/070209181018.i9acjrf8.html
Quote:
Opponents of Poland's former communist regime reportedly want to pay a posthumous homage to US President Ronald Reagan by erecting his statue in the place of a Soviet-era monument.
In an open letter to the mayor of the southwestern city of Katowice, the former anti-regime activists said that the staunchly anti-communist Reagan had been a "symbol of liberty," the Polish news agency PAP reported.
As a result, they said, he deserved to become the centrepiece of the city's Freedom Square, replacing a monument to the Soviet troops who drove out the occupying Nazis in 1945.
They also said that they wanted the site to be rebaptised "Ronald Reagan Freedom Square."
City hall spokesman Waldemar Bojarun said that Katowice's councillors would consider the issue.
Bojarun said that he had "enormous respect" for Reagan.
However, he said, the proposal could cost an estimated 500,000 zlotys (128,000 euros, 168,000 dollars) and the city had "other pressing needs."
There are already separate plans to erect a statue in memory of Reagan in the centre of the Polish capital, Warsaw, which would be paid-for from private funds.
Reagan, who dubbed the Soviet Union an "evil empire," is widely credited by Poles with having driven communism to the wall.
The conservative Republican made fighting communism the cornerstone of his 1980-1988 presidency, and backed Poland's Solidarity trade union after it went underground when the regime declared martial law in 1981.
Reagan died in June 2004 at the age of 93.
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Yeah, that proves it alright. 
Once Bush Sr is gone, someone, somewhere in the former Soviet bloc will probably put up a statue of him too, so then you'll have two contenders for winners of the war. Plus Gorbachev statues, so that makes three winners.
Or we can just admit that it's more complicated than that.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
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i think its neccessary to keep in mind, regarding the subject of communism, that its pretty well established that it was started by western(european/american)interests, to play good/cop bad/cop with the middle classes of the world. Karl Marx is credited as being the founder of communism, but the irony is that he grew up in France, and spent most of his adult life off of the generousity of the profits of a wealthy Englishman(a capitalist, no less). all of his support was given by westerners, which was instrumental in fomenting the Russian revolution
i went and found some quotes from a book i read a while back, that kind of provides some more context to these claims
"the Unseen Hand"
Quote:
Perhaps the true cause of the Russian revolution can be traced to a war of competition in the oil industry that started after the American Edward Drake drilled the first oil well in 1859. Drake was not the one, however, who saw the enormous potential in the oil business for exorbitant profits.
John D. Rockefeller was one of the early refiners of oil as he started in 1863 with two partners. Rockefellers interest was not satisfied with just one refinery, however. as author William Hoffman obvserved: "what he wanted was to be the largest refiner in the world, the only refiner in the world."
in 1872, Rockefeller controlled twenty-five percent of Americas capacity, and by 1879 controlled ninety-five percent. his goal shifted now from national control to international control. his company, Standard Oil was supplying ninety percent of Americas foreign oil sales and was the sole source of an exportable surplus. but something was happening to his international market. "the wall of Standards international oil monopoly had been breached with the opening of Russias great Baku field on the Caspian Sea. by 1883, a railroad had been built to the Black Sea, and the Czar had invited the Nobel brothers of the Rothschild* family to help develope these great oil riches."
Standard Oil now had an international competitor in the oil business!
the Rotchschild family was now in a position to compete favorably, with Standard Oil in the sale of oil in the world market. by 1888, this new oil source had overtaken Standard Oil as the international seller of crude oil...
the rapid growth of the oil industry led Russia into the industrialized world. the traditional explanation of Russians economy at this time was that it was that the nation was an agrarian economy, far behind the other Eurpean economies. However, during the period of 1907 to 1913, Russias increase in industrial production rate exceeded that of the US, England and Germany, long believed to be the industrailzed giants of the day.
the following is typical of the conclusion of many researches who have examined this period in history: "the Russian revolution of 1917 came not at the end of a period of stagnation and decay, but rather after more than a half century of the most rapid and comprehensive economic progress." and with this progress came the development of a middle class, the enemy of the(nwo)conspiracy.
there are historians who now believe that the RUssian Revolution of 1917 was in truth a revolution instigated by the American and European oil interests to wrestle control of the Russian oil fields from the Rothschild-Nobel combination.
But other forces were at work as well in the Russian Revolution. after the defeat of Napoleon and the occupation of Paris in 1814 by Russian troops, many Russian aristocrats visited France. the liberal ideas of the French Revolution(also orchestrated by secret societies) appealed to many of them and resulted in the formation of two secret masonic lodges(in Russia), the Northern Star and the Southern Star. both lodges enlisted as members many influential and wealth Russian nobles.
the secret societies had been brought to Russia. in a book entitled Russia 1917, auther George Katkov cited the enormous influence the secret societies had in the Communist Revolution: "there is noNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I think it’s further evidence for an already well established historical argument. I really don’t consider the issue in question, actually.
Originally posted by Skywalken:
The proof is that now even the former commie countries credit him with freeing them from the evil of communism.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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As always, statues are put up in accordance with the Great Man theory of history. It's all a crock of shit.
In my perfect world, the acknowledged winners of the Cold War would be the people who worked hard every day, played by the rules and raised their familes to live up to an ideal of an America that has never really existed, but could. All of this while living through the uncertainty of nuclear annhilation. It's amazing to me the advances (Civil rights, women's rights, Silicon Valley, "the Moon, you mother fuckers" - that's my personal version of Kennedy's edict, etc.) and sacrifices (paying the taxes to support the military that the Russians bankrupted themselves trying to keep up with) and pitfalls avoided(setting the stages for a theocracy and, hello, McCarthy anyone?).
When someone uses a huge earthmover to level a job site who is really responsible? The owner, the civil engineer, the contractor, the foreman, the driver, those who built the machine or those who mined the metals used in the building of the machine? I'd say all of the above. However, for those who subscribe to the Great Man theory of history, the only person who matters is the one at the top of that pyramid of effort. Figures.
Did Reagan win the Cold War?
That's the wrong question.
But if it helps people's pretty little heads sleep at night with dreams of a simplistic world... Sure, why not?
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Gorbachov & Lech Walensa (spelling?) are the 2 people most responsible for ending the USSR.
Both had guts and risked their lives.....Reagan made a few speeches and ramped up our defense budget to intimidate the Soviets, but Gorby & Lech were men of vision and bravery.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
Gorbachov & Lech Walensa (spelling?) are the 2 people most responsible for ending the USSR.
Both had guts and risked their lives.....Reagan made a few speeches and ramped up our defense budget to intimidate the Soviets, but Gorby & Lech were men of vision and bravery.
There is no doubt that a fair share of the credit goes to alot of folk. Don't forget Kohl and Miterand...or that Czech poet. And no small part to Yeltsin taking to the streets and climbing on that tank to stop the hard liner coup.
But they were all supporting actors whose roles where made possible by the three leads: the Pope, Thatcher, and most important, President Reagan.
Reagan had a vision. At a time when the US was faltering in the Cold War he took the reigns and kicked the American economy, military and spirit into high gear and threatened a technological innovation that the Soviets knew they could not match.
Reagan then spent the Soviet Empire into bankruptsy that allowed the moderates like Gorby the flexibility to begin the reforms that allowed the folk in Poland and elsewhere to do their thing. Without Reagan's leadership in the West Soviet tanks would have crushed the polish workers like they had so many other anti-Soviet movements during the Cold War.
What Reagan accomplished was a feat of Grand Strategy that was founded on his faith in the superiority of the American system. Every decision he made in office was influenced by that belief. And he was right. Perhaps we need a bit of that thinking these days.
H
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When Carter was promoting " can't we all just get along " , Reagan stood firm for his ideals and helped freed half a continent. Clearly, he didn't do it alone. Thatcher, Pope JPII, Lech Walessa ... .there's a long list of heros here which stood up and said 'nyet' to the Soviet view of the world.
Good for those in Poland for at least recognizing Reagan. He'd have been honored , and humbled, by their gesture.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Reagan was an asshole. He was an asshole as Governor and he was an asshole as President. I truly thought he would be the biggest asshole I would ever see in politics (yes, including Nixon), but G.W. has proved that there CAN be bigger assholes.
Saying Reagan "won" the Cold War is like saying Chuechill "won" WW2. What happened to the USSR was inevitable, Reagan just happened to be in the White House at the time.
Remember, he's the prick who traded arms with Iran so he could illegally fund terrorists in Central America. Oops, I forgot! When we supply them, they're "freedom fighters." It's only when we disagree that they become "terrorists."
Georgie said Iraq and Iran are both parts of an "axis of evil" - guess which evil bastard ARMED the "axis?"
Reagan was scum, as were the people around him. They didn't -and don't- believe in America or the tenets it was founded upon. His legacy lives on in George W. Bush and his cohorts in crime, and it is a dark and nasty legacy.
An accurate chronology of United States involvement in the arming of Iraq: http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php
Anyway, that's what I think...
MT
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