a long wait for a train that don't come

POSTED BY: cozen
UPDATED: Thursday, February 15, 2007 19:17
VIEWED: 6283
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COZEN

Friday, February 9, 2007 8:27 PM

Seems to me that after everything that Malcolm Reynolds has had happen to him, that he still believes in God. Or, from my perspective, in the concept of "God". It's just that Reynolds would rather not have God on or about the good ship Serenity.

My own opinion is that the character Malcolm Reynolds is missing an important point. That point being: God, Allah, Jehovah & etc. are constructs invented by people each and every time humans come up against the conceptual trickster that is Infinity.

I'm no mathematician, but it seems to me that "infinity" has trumped folks, ie., mathematicians and physicists, who, for instance, have attempted to solve mysteries of the universe via string theory and the creation of this universe that we ponder. It seems to me that theologians are inclined to utilise the concept of God in a manner that allows them to escape explaining the ultimate beginning of the universe and the ultimate expanse of the universe in a way that is grounded in common sense. By which I mean religious scholars invoke the spirit of God in such a way as to make it unnecessary to explain the mystery of God, which I feel is an unsatisfactory answer to the question of how and why we are here.

I figure that Reynolds no longer cares about such metaphysical ramblings, because he needs to figure out a way to survive on a daily basis while holding true to an indiviualist ethic. It's exactly that ethic, in part, which drew me to the show, Firefly. Well, that and the jokes. And Inara's beauty.... Right!

In short, it appears to me Captain Reynolds accepts that God exists, somehow, and is true, but that Reynolds would prefer God not interfere in his life. Whereas cozen figures that God -- and all the other spiritual manifestations -- is (are) (a) mythical construct(s) of humans, and it's time we just accepted that and move on to creating a livable future. Ergo, God is untrue.

My question is: is serenity possible in any equation that doesn't factor in God?

I'm not well versed on the literary background of such, if any, themes this post might conjure, but, gorram it, I sure do hope for some meaningful pointers!

URIAHONE

Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:32 AM

if you noticed, at the beginning of the first episode, he kissed a cross that he had on a necklace, the point was that after the rebels lost, he began to hate god, and to hate god you have to believe in god. it's actually quite common in people that dealt w/ a crushing defeat.

ASARIAN

Sunday, February 11, 2007 6:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cozen:

Seems to me that after everything that Malcolm Reynolds has had happen to him, that he still believes in God. Or, from my perspective, in the concept of "God". It's just that Reynolds would rather not have God on or about the good ship Serenity.

My own opinion is that the character Malcolm Reynolds is missing an important point. That point being: God, Allah, Jehovah & etc. are constructs invented by people each and every time humans come up against the conceptual trickster that is Infinity.

I'm no mathematician, but it seems to me that "infinity" has trumped folks, ie., mathematicians and physicists, who, for instance, have attempted to solve mysteries of the universe via string theory and the creation of this universe that we ponder. It seems to me that theologians are inclined to utilise the concept of God in a manner that allows them to escape explaining the ultimate beginning of the universe and the ultimate expanse of the universe in a way that is grounded in common sense. By which I mean religious scholars invoke the spirit of God in such a way as to make it unnecessary to explain the mystery of God, which I feel is an unsatisfactory answer to the question of how and why we are here.

I figure that Reynolds no longer cares about such metaphysical ramblings, because he needs to figure out a way to survive on a daily basis while holding true to an indiviualist ethic. It's exactly that ethic, in part, which drew me to the show, Firefly. Well, that and the jokes. And Inara's beauty.... Right!

In short, it appears to me Captain Reynolds accepts that God exists, somehow, and is true, but that Reynolds would prefer God not interfere in his life. Whereas cozen figures that God -- and all the other spiritual manifestations -- is (are) (a) mythical construct(s) of humans, and it's time we just accepted that and move on to creating a livable future. Ergo, God is untrue.

My question is: is serenity possible in any equation that doesn't factor in God?

I'm not well versed on the literary background of such, if any, themes this post might conjure, but, gorram it, I sure do hope for some meaningful pointers!

Well, I'll leave infinity to those infinitely more qualified in that area. :) But, as for Mal, it's my estimation that, after the Battle of Serenity Valley, Mal simply could no longer afford to set himself up for a huge disappointment like that. It's not that he no longer believes in God. Nor that he hates Him, even. It's just, he felt the need to protect his own soul from investing hope in God. In essence, he decided never be under the expectation of deity ever again. I believe that's what he meant when he told Book the stuff about a long wait for a train don't come.

I think Mal, given the choice, actually would rather prefer that God DID interfere in his life. But he's no longer counting on Him -- and wearing that chosen absence of expectation as a protective shield, as it were. Mal expected the good guys to win. And they didn't. His early question, "God, whose colors is He flyin'?", was most telling in that regard. Because when you no longer know where God stands, you know you stand alone; and die alone.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

REDLAVA

Sunday, February 11, 2007 6:49 AM

Uriahone made an excellent point, if you hate Him then you have to believe in Him. I think Mal still believes in God, he just isn't welcome on his boat. If both sides believe in a God, then God, in turn, has to make a choice in who to be with. One side wins the other side loses. One is saved one is forsaken. God can't be on everybody's side, just doesn't work that way. Mal believed that God was on his side, the side that he believed was right. He lost, more than the war, more than his innocence. He lost his faith in God to be with him when he needed him the most.

So to answer your question, yes I believe you can have serenity without God. Mal found his in his boat and is crew.

RABBIT2

Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:23 AM

I suspect that Mal came from a rather backward colony where there was little diversity of belief.
When Mal volenteered to join up, all the people around him, especially the local priests, pastors (or whatever) were telling him that God was on their side and it was a morally just war.
His religious faith was probably what kept him going during the war but the defeat of the Independants (and possably the destruction of his home colony) caused him to question his belief system and everything else.
Deep down, I think he still believes in a God but is not willing to put his trust in any sort of orginised religion or anything else other than a few people around him.

--------------------------------------------------

Flight Instructor: Son, know what the first rule of flying is?
Me: Don`t crash?

TDBROWN

Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:25 PM

My feeling is that Mal has become, essentially, a Deist. He believes in a Creator, but feels that God plays no Active part in his (Mal's) Universe. God has left us to our own devices (Free Will) and is basically an "Absentee Landlord". That's why faith in God is "A long wait for a train that don't come".

JMHO, and yes; I'm a Deist.

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal

ZOID

Sunday, February 11, 2007 6:28 PM

My disagreement to most folks' notion of God stems from their deeply held belief that God is there to make sure that their individual desires are met -- if they pray hard enough, live a pious enough life, give enough money to The Church, et cetera -- then God will provide all their wishes, like some sort of all-powerful genie. "Dear Lord, please bring me a plastic rocket, and a pony, and..."

I personally believe that God is not absent from the world; but, that 'His' plan and ours rarely if ever coincide. To say that God has got a longer view of what is good for us than we do, is overstating the obvious to my way of thinking.
(NB: God is neither male nor female, and both male and female. To assign a sex to God is to be ignorant of the all-encompassing nature of God. To illustrate: When we get to the afterlife, what use sexual organs? Or put another way, what Spouse is God planning on having sex with, so that God would have to create for 'Himself' sexual organs?)

As a consequence, when I pray (and I do, daily), I never ask for something for myself, but rather, for God's will to be done. For example: "Dear Lord, if it is Your will and in Your plan, please take away my son's fever and make him well", or "...help me find a way to provide for my family", or "...save our country from the weaknesses of foolish, short-sighted people." The important part is, "if it's Your will and in Your plan".

Some will invariably say, "It's not much of a prayer if you're just leaving it all up to God to decide what's good for you." I simply respond, "Thank you for making my point." They scratch their heads and walk away...

People get disappointed in God or stop believing in 'Him' altogether, because they are short-sighted and because they are so certain that they themselves are the center around which the Universe revolves. It's not just madness, it's self-love...Something a good deal more dangerous.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
...And in case the point was missed, I'm not leaving it up to God to decide what's good for me, personally; but, rather what's good for all of us, now and in future generations. 'I' am inconsequential, except as a willing and devoted participant in God's Plan, even if I personally suffer or succeed.
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

COZEN

Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:17 PM

I don't think that Malcolm Reynolds is given to an over-abundance of self love. To wit, "I'm a bad man". Also, there is no doubt in my mind that Reynolds believes that God exists, and I assume that's likely in standard patriarchial form (no room for "Him" on my boat). I consider Reynolds to have reached an understanding whereby he simply doesn't have the time to waste on pondering the journeys that simple folk are required to take to fulfill God's Path, which is anyway assumed as unknown to us mere humans.

Yikes! Does this make Reynolds an existentialist? (*cozen ponders if he has the will to find, not to mention re-read his Sartre, et. al. tomes... but he's sure they're around here, somewhere. Where's Camus when you really need him?!).

Seems to me that Reynolds has figured out that he decides what's best for himself and his crew on a daily basis. That's the extent of any planning. If such an existence occurs within God's plan, the good Cap'n can't be bothered with the analysis. Alternatively, maybe Reynolds has come to the conclusion that God is a creation of Man, and thus a fallacy, though, of course, that's my own bias creeping into the discourse and was not addressed in the fourteen television episodes and the Big Damn Movie.

My take on the concept of "serenity" in the SereniFly 'verse is that it is the centre that keeps Malcolm Reynolds sane, or, at the least, able to keep him flyin' from all the troubles he tends to make for himself. Perhaps Reynolds had to factor God out of his life's equation in order to find that centre.

***
What was I on about with the "infinity" in that post? I'm a maths cretin. Oh well. I could edit the post, but I choose to live with my humiliations, and plod along despite them.

CAUSAL

Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
...And in case the point was missed, I'm not leaving it up to God to decide what's good for me, personally; but, rather what's good for all of us, now and in future generations. 'I' am inconsequential, except as a willing and devoted participant in God's Plan, even if I personally suffer or succeed.

I've taken a lot of flak on this board for my religious faith, some of which hurt my feelings, some of which just amused me. But darned if I was able to express my faith as eloquently and as succinctly as the above. Well done!

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police

CAUSAL

Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cozen:
...and thus a fallacy...

In the philosophical sense or the vernacular sense?

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police

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