Evolutionary Debate

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 16:16
VIEWED: 20170
PAGE 6 of 20

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE

FREDGIBLET

Friday, February 9, 2007 3:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
a militant atheist? what does that mean? wheres Citizen when you need him?

Someone who is not shy to tell a non-atheist that they are wrong, someone who pushes atheism like a fundamentalist evangelical pushes creationism.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, February 9, 2007 4:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Jack ?
That's generally known as Pascal's Wager.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

Heh... I'm taking it you don't agree with my way of thinking here. That's freedom, ain't it?

Thanks for the article. I really had no idea that there was already a name for this particular way of thinking. Just goes to show what I always say about none of us ever having an original thought.

Now, if we can all get past the part about him being French, I think it's a pretty sound theory. I'm not a gambler by trade, but I do play quite a bit of poker, and this just seems like the smart gamble to me.

I am in no way saying that I'm doing such a thing now. I don't buy in either scenario, though I won't deny their legitimacy either. I don't see why one should have to chose to believe in either, or the possibility of both. I won't go on living my life differently for either one. I'm just saying that perhaps in my old age, when my body has been failing me, if I still haven't seen anything that makes me believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that God doesn't exist, whether it has been scientifically proven that we evolved from animals or not, I will probably take the "Hell Avoidance Insurance".

As far as Mr. Science jerk-off is concerned, you're god damned right that evolution has no place in public schools. No God in public schools, no evolution in public schools... period. If you want to know about either, then pick up a book on your own damn time.

Don't even try to argue with me that you can't get a decent job without a knowledge of evolution. You know my real reason behind me saying that evolution does not belong in schools anymore than God does. Do not try to cleverly twist my words, because you look like a mindless shithead when you do.

As far as everybody believing in evolution except for Pakastan and America.... whatever. You're never going to prove that to me and I don't live there to know myself one way or the other. Even if this were the case, I would just tell you that it's because people in America and Pakastan aren't as easily shepparded around by the scientists and the elite who tell them what to think. Show me an entire country where every single citizen believes in either God or evolution and I will show you a country full of brainless slaves.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

YINYANG

Friday, February 9, 2007 4:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
if I still haven't seen anything that makes me believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that God doesn't exist

No one can prove that, which is why science doesn't even touch the supernatural! Anything above the five senses is more or less speculation.

And, overall, science doesn't claim to know everything (or, anything, really, if you want to be deep*) - it merely tries to explain things as is observable and testable.

One last thing, and then you can proceed to eat me. There are always crazies. Just because the athiest scientists get the most hype - or whatever - doesn't mean there aren't plenty of religious ones (like my biology teacher in junior high, for example). Or, y'know, Catholics? Hasn't the pope or somebody given it the okay?

Knowledge, language, mathematics, etc. are tools, nothing more. The only real "truths" are what we percieve and accept.

*Are we really all just in the Matrix?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, February 9, 2007 4:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
No one can prove that, which is why science doesn't even touch the supernatural! Anything above the five senses is more or less speculation.

I don't think we as a species are nearly as smart as we give ourselves credit for. Surely science will never prove that there isn't a God. This is only something that you can decide for yourself, but I think that it's unfortunate that militant atheist pricks like Dawkin's are actively trying to make people lose their faith. I don't like people coming to my door telling me to find God either. Johova's Witnesses are notorious for that where I live.

Quote:
And, overall, science doesn't claim to know everything (or, anything, really, if you want to be deep*) - it merely tries to explain things as is observable and testable.

Perhaps Science doesn't claim to know everything, but it never thinks twice about trying to prove somebody wrong with its facts and theories and make them look like they're ignorant if they don't just buy something because the "experts" say it's true on a 10 second clip on the nightly news.

Quote:
One last thing, and then you can proceed to eat me. There are always crazies. Just because the athiest scientists get the most hype - or whatever - doesn't mean there aren't plenty of religious ones (like my biology teacher in junior high, for example). Or, y'know, Catholics? Hasn't the pope or somebody given it the okay?

I'm not aware of the Pope doing that, but I wouldn't be suprised. I see no reason why evolution couldn't have happened and it was simply the way that we explain how God has done it all from the start here. I think, considering this very valid possibility, the Pope has shown a lot of class by coming out and saying that it is possible for evolution and God to co-exist. My arguement is not against the science itself. My arguement is against Big Gov forcing it down everybodys throats and not allowing God to be taught in school at the same time. The whole thing just reeks of agenda. Read "Brave New World" and you might grasp what I'm trying to say here.

I feel that neither have place in a public, government sponsored, school. If you pay to go to a school that teaches evolution... then fine. My youngest brother is going to a science and math school for smart kids for his last 2 years of high school. It's pretty much him and a ton of Asians there. I'm sure he'll learn a lot about evolution there, but that's okay because it's his and my parents choice. If you want to pay to go to a religious school, more power too you. That is your choice as well.

Quote:
Knowledge, language, mathematics, etc. are tools, nothing more. The only real "truths" are what we percieve and accept.

I couldn't agree with you more. Well said.

Quote:
Are we really all just in the Matrix?

Another equally valid explanation for it all. Seriously. What the scientists and religious zealots fail to consider is the possibility that neither one of them are even close to being right.

I wouldn't dream of "eating" you..... unless you looked really tasty. :) I only snapped a bit earlier on somebody because they are rude with their replies and I don't take very kindly to that. Your post was nothing of the sort and I thank you for keeping a debate type approach rather than be condescending and accusatory.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

FREDGIBLET

Friday, February 9, 2007 5:15 AM

Quote:
Perhaps Science doesn't claim to know everything, but it never thinks twice about trying to prove somebody wrong with its facts and theories and make them look like they're ignorant if they don't just buy something because the "experts" say it's true on a 10 second clip on the nightly news.

Um...that's what science is about...disproving false theories and proving correct ones. The media is frequently overzealous in its hyping of new theories and no one should take a 10-second clip as gospel, but ignorance is ignorance, if you've never taken a chemistry class you are likely ignorant of the principles of chemnistry, pointing that out is simply stating a fact.

Quote:
I'm not aware of the Pope doing that, but I wouldn't be suprised.

The last pope said something along the lines of that evolution is real and that science ans religion can co-exist.

Quote:
My arguement is not against the science itself. My arguement is against Big Gov forcing it down everybodys throats and not allowing God to be taught in school at the same time.

Um...science is science, by your reasoning we shouldn't be teaching physics, chemistry, geology etc. in school. Few people are FORCED to take a class that includes evolution, evolution is taught as part of biology because it is an integral part of biology, it is the foundation of modern biology and the glue that holds biology together. If you don't want to learn about evolution just avoid biology classes.

Religion is not a science and thus is not taught in science class, I have nothing against religious classes but they should be in social studies not science.

Quote:
The whole thing just reeks of agenda. Read "Brave New World" and you might grasp what I'm trying to say here.

I've read it and I don't get what you are saying, like I said before evolution is science and is therefore taught in science classes, it is no different than physics or chemistry (except that it's a bit harder to observe)

Quote:
I feel that neither have place in a public, government sponsored, school.

Evolution has a integral place in any classroom that teaches biology.

Quote:
What the scientists and religious zealots fail to consider is the possibility that neither one of them are even close to being right.

Actually scientists do consider that...frequently. Science is about disproving false theories, if evolution is wrong then eventually science will discover that and a new theory will take hold. However given the vast amount of evidence for evolution it is unlikely that anyone will be able to disprove it.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 9, 2007 5:34 AM

Quote:
Heh... I'm taking it you don't agree with my way of thinking here. That's freedom, ain't it?

Nope, but that's freedom, ain't it ?

I file this whole matter under the "WTFK" category.

As far as afterlives go, we don't know, we can't actually *know*, it's unpossible, so far as that goes ain't no sense in worrying about it, especially when some folk do so to the exclusion of here and now.

I figure of all the possible and potential afterlifes, were they all every bit as real as each other, it'd be Valhalla for me most probably.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einherjar

And me being me, I'll probably try to feel up the Valkyrie when she comes to haul me off and get slapped silly for it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, February 9, 2007 5:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Are there any middle grounders out there like me, who enjoy a little from column A and a little from column B, and who are waiting for a column C to split the difference?"

Or is it very retarded of me to think this way?

I think it is a sign of intelligence to question everything.

I think it is pretty well established that micro-evolution is a fact. Those moths and bacteria and countless other populations have been observed directly to change their gene pools over time.

The debate really comes with MACRO-evolution. What do we REALLY know about what happened millions and billions of years ago? We have fossils and bones, geology and dating procedures. That's about it. We can extrapolate and make intelligent, educated guesses. But in the end, most of macro-evolution is speculation, and therefore debatable.

It is debatable whether life evolved out of some warm, wet soup, or out of semi-conducting rocks. It is still debatable whether humans evolved from some primate ancester or from an aquatic ancestor. It is still debatable whether macro-evolution occurs gradually or in sudden leaps following catastrophes. Some folks may say the body of knowledge is beyond these debates. But I say, how on earth do they KNOW for sure? Not a single one of us was there. It is all inference, and therefore subject to error.

I am religious, and I pretty much accept evolutionary theory. But I also know both belief systems rest on assumptions and I could very well be wrong on one or both counts.

Popular scientific opinion has changed enough times throughout history that we should know entire paradigms can be turned on their ears when just one assumption is proven wrong.

There is definitely room for all sorts of interesting twists in the coming evolution of evolutionary theory.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, February 9, 2007 5:42 AM

Quote:
Science good. Science the way. Science always right. No Science = Ignorance.

There's no winning with you people.

I'm going to file this under "WTFK" with Frem and let you uber-smart people can go on and disprove God for us. There's no way my undeveloped and ignorant brain can compete with or even keep up with your infinately superior brainpower.

So Pardon me while I take my leave now. I'm going to find me a monkey and get liquored up and start Devolving with it.

Edit: BTW... I saw your newest post Canttakethesky and I like it. Well said.

Frem feelin up the valkries.... that's cool. I wanna go to Valhalla too now.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

FREDGIBLET

Friday, February 9, 2007 5:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Science good. Science the way. Science always right. No Science = Ignorance.

What I was saying is that lack of knowledge is ignorance, it's a simple fact, I've never studied Art History, I am ignorant in the field of Art History, I have never studied Organic Chemistry, I am ignorant in the field of Organic Chemistry. Saying that someone who has never studied evolution is ignorant of evolution is simply stating a fact.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, February 9, 2007 5:50 AM

Yeah, well if I learn math, that information isn't going to change before I die.

They used to teach kids that the earth was flat in school at one point.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE