Solar System Vs. Galaxy

POSTED BY: MadJack
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 17:41
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LODRIL

Monday, February 23, 2004 6:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hans:
There's dozens of references to moons and planets, but not a single one to a star system, or a sun, or a solar system, something you'd think they'd mention if they were travelling over interstellar distances.

That's not very compelling evidence though. No one lives on a star. If I go to Taiwan, I say I'm going to Taiwan, not "Asia" or "Earth" or "Sol system". I might even say "Taibei". People tend to refer to things by the most well known landmark, which might not be the star in question. I live outside of D.C., but when I'm travelling and people ask me where I'm from, that's what I tell them. "North America" is too broad, and "Takoma Park" too specific.

Particularly if there are only a few inhabited star systems, you'd still refer to destinations more specifically than just by star. If you're headed to Ariel, there's only one big famous Ariel, and everyone knows what star it circles, you wouldn't say it any other way unless you wanted to be purposefully vague.

GROUNDED

Monday, February 23, 2004 6:51 PM

Maybe not, but the actual distances mentioned in the show are compelling for the one system argument.

HANS

Monday, February 23, 2004 7:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lodril:

That's not very compelling evidence though. No one lives on a star. If I go to Taiwan, I say I'm going to Taiwan, not "Asia" or "Earth" or "Sol system". I might even say "Taibei". People tend to refer to things by the most well known landmark, which might not be the star in question. I live outside of D.C., but when I'm travelling and people ask me where I'm from, that's what I tell them. "North America" is too broad, and "Takoma Park" too specific.
(stuff cut)

Hmmm, I have to disagree. First of all, people do talk about broad generalizations (asian cooking, european vacations, african music, etc). You're right that as inhabitants of Earth we don't talk about Earth or the sol system as a destination - that's because our entire society is contained within that system. This, to me, is exactly the same reason Mal and the gang don't talk about stars or solar systems - their entire society is contained within their solar system. And if their universe was made up of a handful of star systems with dozens of planets (like the continent/country analogy) I still think you'd have to mention a star system here or there (especially since conventional travel within a star system is presumably very different from FTL travel to a different star system, in terms of propulsion method, distances, and travel times).

You're absolutely right that it could be convention in the Firefly universe to talk about planet names and not stars. I just find it strange that they are never mentioned.

Hans

NIHILISMNOW

Monday, February 23, 2004 7:44 PM

For me it is pretty clear that it is a single solar system. Most of the evidence that leads me to believe this has been mentioned above.

Also if there were multiple systems the spectrum of visible light would be different in each of the systems and the majority of the systems would have to be binary or trinary. We havent seen a single shot in firefly of 2 suns in the sky.

LODRIL

Monday, February 23, 2004 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NihilismNow:
Also if there were multiple systems the spectrum of visible light would be different in each of the systems and the majority of the systems would have to be binary or trinary. We havent seen a single shot in firefly of 2 suns in the sky.

There are lots of binary or trinary systems in the galaxy, but not all solar systems are that way. For all we know, those systems would be far more difficult to colonize, which would be why we don't see them (higher ambient radiation, more tectonic activity from the gravities involved, etc). The lack of multiple suns in the various episodes doesn't point to much of anything.

Secondly, it doesn't matter what color the star is, the human brain comprehends one set of colors. My guess is that you're suggesting that different colored stars would give everything a funky tint. I'm not sure that's true, since our own sun skews things blue, and it's yellow. At that level of light intensity, I don't think the color of the star effects the visible spectrum. Besides, a TV show where everything was tinted funky colors would be nigh unwatchable. Not even Star Trek goes that far most of the time, and I consider it pretty unwatchable as is.

I still think there's not enough evidence to go either way. The best 'single system' argument is the distances that Mal lists off from time to time. Which isn't really very solid either. In the alternative, you've got lots of Earth-sized (or at least Earth-gravity) worlds with similar climates, which would seem to be difficult to pack into a single system.

GROUNDED

Monday, February 23, 2004 10:41 PM

The sky is blue, not because of the Sun's emission spectrum, but because of the way the atmosphere scatters light.

Lodril - why don't you think the distances are 'solid'?

POPEBOB

Monday, February 23, 2004 10:52 PM

Ya know, the Star cluster bit sounds good. maybe even a couple close star clusters. thats why it takes a few hours to get to some places and a few days to get to others. Of course i don't think Serenity has FTL capabilities but i do believe that it's possible to do 1/2 light. I think Joss would have wanted to stray from the whole ftl "warp speed mr. sulu" crap. Not that i have anything against Rodenberry.. i just like Firefly the most

With what ive seen of Joss in pertinent interviews it would make sense that they go PGF or the like but not FTL.

Ahhhh.. Curse you sudden but inevitable betrayal!!

LTNOWIS

Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:38 AM

Personally I gotta go with the no FTL side, simply because they never show any evidende or references to FTL. Though I gotta say that it would hard to have "sectors," as book says, if all the planets are spinning. So I tend to side with the Star Cluster theory.

But do you think Joss'll ever tell us? I think that even if the series goes on for a couple more seasons, the writers won't resolve this little mystery, to avoid ticking off half the fans. That, and they don't think it's important

LODRIL

Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
The sky is blue, not because of the Sun's emission spectrum, but because of the way the atmosphere scatters light.

That wasn't what I was referring to. Find a room with white tile and close all the doors and windows on a bright sunny day. Look at the tile under artificial light. Next, let in the sunlight and look at the tiles. They'll have a noticably bluer tint. I'm not entirely sure why, but sunlight skews blue; it's most noticable when you don't white balance an older camera after moving it from inside light to outside light. To the naked eye, however, the difference is seldom seen.

Quote:
Lodril - why don't you think the distances are 'solid'?

Numerous reasons... one, we don't know where he started counting. Say he claims to travel 30 million miles. What does that include? What if he has some sort of 'jump' technology that lets him skip trillions of miles in between? Is it 30 million straight he's talking about, or 30 million at sublight/analog travel? FTL might well just avoid the passage of time entirely, in which case he might not count it.

The stronger response is that just because planet A and B are within a certain distance does not mean that all the settled planets are within a single solar system. Planet C might be much, much farther out... which is why they're doing a short run between A and B (possibly on the way to C). We don't really visit that many planets in the series, so it's quite possible Serenity stayed mostly in one local area while being capable of going much farther. There's just no way to tell.

WYDRAZ

Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:13 AM

Serenity doesn't need FTL to travel interstellar distances. Everyone knows that once you break the system boundary (just outside the Oort cloud) that the time-dilated space between stars allows the ship (and light, and everything else) to move at thousands of times the speed that light travels inside a system.

This is the future, folks, anything could be true. All of the above arguments are valid, but has anyone considered they could all be true too?

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