Real World Event Discussions

the cold hard scientific facts: 9/11 was an inside job

POSTED BY: antimason
UPDATED: Sunday, January 14, 2007 09:17
VIEWED: 15140
PAGE 11 of 13

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:36 PM

*Throwing a monkeywrench in the works*

So, answer me these two very simple questions.

"What, exactly, was Mohammed Atta doing on Jack Abramoffs' boat just prior to 9-11 ?"

"If, as stated, WTC 7 was taken down by controlled demolition - who placed the charges, and when ?"

Doesn't take a genius to see that the "Official Story" stinks to high heaven, and I don't think most folk buy into it anyway - the question that persists, and will continue TO persist, is the same one in any FUBAR of this nature.

"Who knew what, and when ?"

In order to find useful answers, you need useful questions, assumption serves no purpose.

-Frem

ANTIMASON

Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Doesn't take a genius to see that the "Official Story" stinks to high heaven, and I don't think most folk buy into it anyway -

so it would seem... unless you ignore all evidence of prior knowledge and complicity, otherwise then it becomes quite believable that all this happened 'out of the blue', just as the government claims

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:51 PM

Quote:
why dont you say what you really mean.. that the muslim world is a greater threat than communism and fascism ever was! you want me to believe that? show me the # of terrorist attacks, and prove to me that the RISK is proportionate with the TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS being spent right now in washington. your the fool for believing that radical Islam will ever convert the western world, thats the conspiracy theory

Ahh, how the line in the sand changes position ,once challenged. Now we're off discussing the Cold war, 40+ yrs of Soviet planned domination of the world vs the irrational ravings of a lunatic religion. Bravo. Funny how you ran away from the initial issue. Coward.

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it allows you to burry your head in the sand here in AMerica, and rest assured each night that big brother government will protect you; as it systematically removes every God given freedom allowed by the constitution. your such a socialist, you dont want a rule of law, you want mob rule..

I've yet to have a single freedom described by the Constitution which has been taken away by this Gov't. Not a single one. Socialist ? You don't even know what the definition of that word is. You accuse me of wanting 'mob rule', which is democracy. Make up your fucking mind, zealot.

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shame on you, for giving the Nazis in power the go ahead to rape the hell out of American traditions and place us in a never ending war

Name a single tradition that this administration - what you calls nazis (que laugh track ) has done away with. You can't, because no such tradition has been done away with. You're just babbling like a pathetic fool on the street corner.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CITIZEN

Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:18 PM

I said I wasn't going to come back here, but I find it hard to walk past craziness without giving a rational answer.

But first a few words from our sponsors:

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
After y2k, I made a vow to stop wasting my time on conspiracy theories and nut case claims. A brief list of claims that I won't bother even wasting my time 'looking into' -

Y2K wasn't a 'conspiracy theory', and don't bother going on about how 'nothing happened January 1st 2000'. Nothing happened because people took the situation seriously and worked to stop it. My Father was a member of the programming team that rewrote Legal and Generals code to overcome the date field problem. Much of the hype (nuclear weapons being launched for instance) was bogus, but Y2K was not.

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[[]list of conspiracy theories[]]
Global warming is 'man made' , or even remotely influenced by mankind.

You forgot one:
Bush was democratically elected.

Quote:
Stop the presses! Alert the media! Citizen and I agree 100% on something.

Now Ladies and Gentlemen, our main feature.

Now I feel it's important to address the actual issue, rather than question the one making it, so I will refrain from pointing out that a history professor hardly has the credentials to take on the people who came up with the official line, having, as he does, less credentials in physics, design and material science than I do.

Oh oops, just forget I said that.

Anyway, point one:

Quote:
Originally posted by AntiMason:
and the buildings didnt collapse after they were hit... they just burned; AND NOT AT STEEL MELTING TEMPERATURES EITHER! their were people standing outside the impact marks.. how much more 'proof' do you need. all those other floors that were perfectly intact pulvarized in a matter of seconds.. that has NEVER happened before.

Well you at least recognise that planes haven't been flown into skyscrapers like the WTCs before, but how that helps your case is beyond me, frankly.

Now maybe you can answer me a further question? Why does the steel have to melt?

A really quick really simplified lesson on materials:
You see as steels temperature increases it's tensile strength decreases, it comes from how materials work, you see in a solid atoms are tightly packed and held together with atomic bonds. As the temperature of the material increases the atoms gain energy, they become excited and start vibrating like an Italian waiter on his honeymoon. This weakens the bonds between the atoms, making them easier to break, so you see to make a beam of steel fail through heat you don't need to melt it, just reduce it's strength to the point that it's yield point (Young's constant) is lower than the materials current load. After the Young's constant a material stops deforming elastically and begins deforming plastically, because the atomic bonds have been broken.

Have you ever seen a blacksmith working on a sword? They don't melt the steel, they keep it very hot so that it is so malleable, so weak, that it can be beaten to shape.

Quote:
did the buildings collapse immediately when they were hit?? answer me that? NO

Erm, it took further material failure to fatally compromise the structure. It's clear that the initial impacts didn't demolish the buildings, though undoubtedly they severely weakened the structure around the impact site, and I suspect throughout the entire structure (note: vibrations weaken materials and joints, vibrations travel), which meant that the fire had a much weakened structure to weaken even further, then all that mass above the impact sites combined with that other great conspiracy 'gravity' combined to cause catastrophic failure. One thing to remember is it only takes one steel strut to fail to make every other steel strut more likely to fail. If the fire wasn't working on an already reduced and weakened structure it probably wouldn't have caused the buildings to collapse.

Quote:
is that

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ANTIMASON

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:12 AM

dbl post

ANTIMASON

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Ahh, how the line in the sand changes position ,once challenged. Now we're off discussing the Cold war, 40+ yrs of Soviet planned domination of the world vs the irrational ravings of a lunatic religion. Bravo. Funny how you ran away from the initial issue. Coward.

i just established your position, your theory as compared to mine: you think radical muslims will actually takeover and destroy America; i think thats a fairy tell of biblical proportions.

im willing to recognize that the greatest threats throughout history have always come from within; communism, fascism, slavery, genocide... it is always the elite of a society who subjugate, propogate, murder and condition their citizens, that out of patriotism, we need to submit all authority to a centralized power. your afraid of terrorist attacks, when the real threat is totalitarianism and authoritarianism.

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I've yet to have a single freedom described by the Constitution which has been taken away by this Gov't. Not a single one.

uhh hello, habeas corpus??? the military commissions act which Bush signed into law?? anyone, citizen or not, who breaks any state or federal law(including patriot act provisions) can be classified as an enemy combatant, or terrorist.. and denied YOUR LIBERTIES UNDER THE CONSTITUTION! and before you tell me this is for terrorists.. like the ones they cant prove are 'terrorists' at GITMO... Bush has already said, and you neonazi goosesteppers have decided aswell, that youre either 'with us or with the terrorists'. so this is the kind of fearmongering intolerant climate you are demanding.. not us

Quote:
Socialist ? You don't even know what the definition of that word is. You accuse me of wanting 'mob rule', which is democracy. Make up your fucking mind, zealot.

what is Bush establishing in Iraq?? a democracy right? democracy IS MOB RULE! and whether they govern for the majority or the minority, that form of government is socialist by nature. you dont even recognize that America is no longer a republic, but a highly manipulated, fascist democracy of mob rule

Quote:
Name a single tradition that this administration - what you calls nazis (que laugh track ) has done away with. You can't, because no such tradition has been done away with. You're just babbling like a pathetic fool on the street corner.

NATIONAL SOVEREIGHNTY! these pathetic traitor elitists that you so sheepishly protect, out of ignorant loyalty.. sold the middle class out through the Free trade agreements... and Lord Bush signed, without congressional oversight, the SPP agreement, to unite Canada the US and mexico, under one common economic authority known as the AMerican Union; and they have a new currency on the way too, even more worthless and indebted than the present. giving AMerica over to foreign nations is treason.. a far greater crime than any act of terror, but youll conveniently shut up about that, because you insist on being a neocon coolaid drinker

FLETCH2

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:

i just established your position, your theory as compared to mine: you think radical muslims will actually takeover and destroy America; i think thats a fairy tell of biblical proportions.

"Taking over America" is not an immediate part of the radical Muslim agenda, the establishment of a unified calipate in the middle east is step one. America is item 3 or 4 in the list. This is the problem, the US is very dependent of foreign oil most of which comes from Muslim countries. Now if the terrorist la-la land dream goes the way they want and they get control of it a number of things can happen.

1) They could just cut the US off. That wouldn't cripple the US because they can buy it elsewhere but the cost will be prohibitive. Look at the problems Europe is having with Russia as a foretaste of that scenario.

2) They can take the money they make from oil and plough it into schemes that would threaten the US militarily, getting the bomb is so much easier if you have the money to pay for it. In addition the American war machine is fuel hungry so controlling Americas oil puts America on a leash.

3) They can use the money to become a cultural threat to the US. Part of the success of Wahabi Muslim expansion is the use of a Muslim's religious obligation to give to charity to spread the message. The Saudi's do this in places like Pakistan by funding schools. There you have the choice, your kid goes to a Wahabi Madrass to be educated or he gets no education. While he is there though he's being radicalised. Imagine that happening in Indonesia radicallising the biggest Muslim nation on earth. Or in Africa, or in south america or even in the US? Could happen.

Quote:

im willing to recognize that the greatest threats throughout history have always come from within; communism, fascism, slavery, genocide... it is always the elite of a society who subjugate, propogate, murder and condition their citizens, that out of patriotism, we need to submit all authority to a centralized power. your afraid of terrorist attacks, when the real threat is totalitarianism and authoritarianism.

Nice to see at least some brain cells are working.

Quote:

Quote:
I've yet to have a single freedom described by the Constitution which has been taken away by this Gov't. Not a single one.

uhh hello, habeas corpus??? the military commissions act which Bush signed into law?? anyone, citizen or not, who breaks any state or federal law(including patriot act provisions) can be classified as an enemy combatant, or terrorist.. and denied YOUR LIBERTIES UNDER THE CONSTITUTION! and before you tell me this is for terrorists.. like the ones they cant prove are 'terrorists' at GITMO... Bush has already said, and you neonazi goosesteppers have decided aswell, that youre either 'with us or with the terrorists'. so this is the kind of fearmongering intolerant climate you are demanding.. not us

Err No. That isn't what it does at all. US Citizens retain the right of Habeas Corpus, it was not suspended as it was during the Civil War. What has changed is that none Americans captured on US soil no longer have that protection. Imagine an American and a none citizen are picked up on the same charges. The American will be prosecuted in accordance with US law while the none citizen has real problems. What this does is remove the right of the none citizen to seek redress through the US court system as has been the case previously.

Quote:

Quote:
Socialist ? You don't even know what the definition of that word is. You accuse me of wanting 'mob rule', which is democracy. Make up your fucking mind, zealot.

what is Bush establishing in Iraq?? a democracy right? democracy IS MOB RULE! and whether they govern for the majority or the minority, that form of government is socialist by nature. you dont even recognize that America is no longer a republic, but a highly manipulated, fascist democracy of mob rule

NO!

I really

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:57 AM

am, you should invite piratenews over for some gay sex and then order a pizza.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FLETCH2

Friday, January 12, 2007 1:01 AM

Are we sure he isn't Piratenews?

So opinion time, is AntiMason a rightwing nutjob "militia" type or some form of gibbering loony lefty? Discuss...

GEEZER

Friday, January 12, 2007 2:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Are we sure he isn't Piratenews?

So opinion time, is AntiMason a rightwing nutjob "militia" type or some form of gibbering loony lefty? Discuss...

I'm voting for just plain "nutjob...gibbering loony". Right or left doesn't even enter into it. If I thought that way, and ever got rational enough to realize that I did, it would be "bullet to the brainpan" or "electroshock, please" time.

"Keep the Shiny side up"