I finally saw season 5 of ANGEL
POSTED BY: reginaroadie
UPDATED: Thursday, January 11, 2007 21:52
VIEWED: 6671
PAGE 3 of 3
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:WHAT!!!????
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I couldn't stand season five. Just felt really, severely contrived.
I thought you were a fan of Angel!
You thought season 4 was better????
(did I bold and underline enough to appear angry?)
You know, I found Angel as a series to be incredibly contrived. I didn't mind that; Buffy gave me a natural (if sometimes disturbing) flow that Angel had a hard time with. The very concept of demons as commonplace among us outside the Hellmouth is a big gear to shift to pull on us after what was supposedly established in Buffy.
Admit it Somnam, you just dont fancy Spike, that's it, right?
Souled Spike rules Chrisisall
Ha!
Well no season four was no better as a whole especially after the connor cordelia body meld thing! Then it went zaro-bi.
The Spike thing highlights the 'severity' of the contrivances. Of course the Joss world's of Buffy and Angel have their contrivances - and there is always an argument to say there are no definable boundaries to just how far a contrivance can go. (Fred turning to Illyria(sp) but if you do that, you run the risk of self indulgence. Now I know folks' love the paroxide one (Spike) but face it - he is a Joss 'self indulgence'. If you think back to the IMPACT that Spike's character had on season two of Buffy when you first watched it - it was significant and powerful and in tune with the emotions of watching this fantastic show that you had no idea where it was going.
However, when he returns later in season three, it's like:
"Hang on what was all that I just went through in season two?"
The mythos is being re-drawn! It's not on. It's akin to Lucas going back to the original Star Wars and adding Jabba the hut!!!!
Thereafter the writers/producers insistence and shoe-horning in of the Spike character really limited the scope with which the show would go. And those limitations resonated into season five of Angel.
Angel had a strength of it's own and the seasons prior had worked very hard in establishing it's own identity, and it was working. But then BANG! here is Spike and you know we're basically in a Buffy spin-off. Damn! And frankly it took so long for an explanation that when it came it felt so false. False that a simpleton like Lindsey, had the powers to do things like this - YET how the hell can an organisation like Wolfram and Hart fail to bring back lost souls?
Don't get me wrong there was some brilliant comedy born out of Spike, but really, imagine where the show could have gone with imagination, and newer characters and less back patting.
www.cirqus.com
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Quote:In a way, all that you say here is correct. But two things:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Angel had a strength of it's own and the seasons prior had worked very hard in establishing it's own identity, and it was working. But then BANG! here is Spike and you know we're basically in a Buffy spin-off.
1) Angel and Spike had a history.
2) Fans of Spike don't care WHERE he's shoe-horned in, just that he's in.
Frankly, I think Joss used to shoot from the hip, and the result was inconsistancy, even if it was interesting. With FF, he had a major, multi-season story mapped out, and that served it well (and would have served it in the long run, but, well, you know...).
(to the tune of 'Hair')Give me a head with peroxide, white, beautiful peroxide...Chrisisall
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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
1) Angel and Spike had a history.
2) Fans of Spike don't care WHERE he's shoe-horned in, just that he's in.
In Ref:
1)Just think, these guys are hundreds of years old. Think of the 'other' wealth of history that was never touched upon. That is what was so fascinating about them.
2) Then give him a show of his own.
As I have said before Buffy/Angel or Spike - The Vampire Slayers, Slayer or should that be layer....
This made me chuckle Big 'C' :
(to the tune of 'Hair')Give me a head with peroxide, white, beautiful peroxide...Chrisisall
Ok I think I've rubbed enough Angel season 5 fans up the wrong way for now I'll take my leave...
The Somnambulist... Exits left of stage.
www.cirqus.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by zorprime01:
My problem is with the beginning... It just seems like nothing of much importance really happens for the first half of the season, other than Spike appearing. And many of the events of the things that at one time might've held more weight now seem forced.
Again, not saying S5 is bad, I still love it. I just don't think it's the best Angel season by a long shot.
The reason that the beginning of season 5 of Angel seemed slow-moving or unimportant was because of the WB....they wanted the episodes to be more "stand-alone" than "arc-ish". They were hoping that this would allow more new fans to become interested in the show. But I think that Joss & Co. moved away from this concept towards the middle/end of the season, which is why I believe it got better after that.
Does this make any sense?
"Well ya know, we studied bludgeoning in the academy first year but by the time you graduate, you just forget everything. I'm a bad cop." ----Laurence Dobson
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I find this so bizarre. It just seems like people (in general, not just on this board) found Fred's death more sad than Cordy's. Not that there would be anything actually wrong with that, I just know from my own experience, it was the total opposite for me.
Let me explain, for those who may be confused about my point.
As a BUFFY fan since Day 1, Cordelia was a character I never expected to care about. Amusing as she was, I thought it was insane that Joss and David Greenwalt were going to bring her to ANGEL. From the time she said to Angel in the first episode at the Hollywood party that she should be talking to people that ARE somebody, I ate my own words. Not only did she bring humor and light to an otherwise depressing world, but in the following years she grew from shallow bitch to complicated heroine. This isn't news to anyone who's seen both shows, obviously. Still, I didn't truly get how much I cared about this character until she was gone. I went through denial, anger, grief, the whole bit. About a TV CHARACTER, for crying out loud!!! (example: Why couldn't Cordy's new "path" be about leaving town--as I originally believed--because she couldn't live with Angel's decision to work for W&H?) Anyway, I didn't get this bad over Doyle, Joyce, Tara, Spike, Fred, Wes, or even Buffy herself. The closest to that actually was the end of the series itself, because the cancellation was so unexpected and undeserved.
That said, I remember reading an article in TV Guide about a week before "Not Fade Away" aired that mentioned the death of at least one member of Angel's team, and at this point I think I was just numb over the thing as a whole but somehow I just KNEW who it was. Of all the characters left, who's death would have the most impact, would hurt the most? Easy, if you know how Joss thinks. It never entered my mind at all that it would be an immortal, so right away I knew it was Wes. But by this time, I was so numb over the whole thing that Wes's death didn't have as much impact as it should have at the time.
I guess this could explain my feelings over Fred's death, too. Cordy's took so much out of me, it numbed me to Fred.
Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble.
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I was much more uspset over cordy as well, because I grew to love her slowly like you said jwa...
fred was alright, I liked her but I didn't love her. she could be a bit annoying the way everyone loved her right from the beginning with her faux wide-eyed innocence and blatant eating disorders (that is such a cliche male fantasy, a woman who looks anorexic but eats tons of junk food 
)
oooh, unleashing the inner cordelia there 
I do cry when I watch her death, it was very well done, and I'm crying for wesley as much as her, but I missed cordy so much more... still do.
plus illyria was way cooler than fred 
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"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."
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I think that people feel that Fred's death was sadder than Cordy's because how much attention was placed on it. Cordy was barely mentioned after she died, whereas Fred's death was an arc in and of itself.
I always thought that it was a crime against humanity to pretty much ignore Cordelia's passing. I mean, here's someone that's been with Angel since the beginning, who was the glue that held the group together (not to mention that Angel was supposed to be in love with her; it makes "The Girl In Question" that much more insulting).
Don't get me wrong, I loved Fred. She was kind of a bright light for the group, much like Kaylee. But Cordelia should have ranked much higher than her.
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"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sense, we couldn't react to a lot of life."
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Quote:Yeah, I have a real problem with that ep, just watched it last night in fact, I think it's season five's worst show, on a number of levels. If SMG actually appeared in it it would have at least had the Buffy factor going for it. As it was, it was The Two Stooges.
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
(not to mention that Angel was supposed to be in love with her; it makes "The Girl In Question" that much more insulting).
Harsh Chrisisall
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I think I finally get the reason(s) why Cordy's death was barely mentioned in last eps. Angel was forcing himself (as he did with Buffy's "death") to move on, thereby honoring her. He also had other things going on to distract him, like running W & H, Spike, taking care of the rest of his family and trying to save Fred, fighting the good fight, Nina the werewolf, and oh yeah, becoming a puppet, etc. To dwell too much on her death would make it impossible to do any of these things.
As for the rest of her friends...Fred had to focus on finding a cure for puppet cancer and dying herself. Wes wasn't real vocal about Lilah's death either, although, he clearly felt it so his nonreaction makes a tiny bit of sense. Spike and Cordy weren't really friends, and Harmony's technically evil. Gunn and Lorne, I don't really get why they never mentioned it, possibly to each other. Connor should have at least asked about her, I think.
As for "Girl in Question" it's never been my favorite ep, but I'm looking at it with a different perspective since learning the TRUTH behind Buffy & the Immortal, from the BUFFY Season 8 comic. There was a link on Whedonesque about a week ago that had pages from it, one of which explained it all. If you're okay with being spoiled, check it out.
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