the cold hard scientific facts: 9/11 was an inside job
POSTED BY: antimason
UPDATED: Sunday, January 14, 2007 09:17
VIEWED: 15140
PAGE 5 of 13
"Okay, let's take a real conspiracy, a real doozie that did happen, like the Final Solution. By your reasoning, it would be acceptible that the Nazis made laws restricting jews' movement, maybe ghettoizing them. But roaving bands of killers in trucks rounding them up and shooting them in the back of the skull and throwing the bodies into mass graves? C'mon! But the conspiracy theorists don't stop there, oh no, the Nazis shipped jews--get this--to "extermination camps," gassed them in gas chambers disguised as showers and burned the evindence in giant ovens! That kind of thing would require a vast beaurocracy, hundreds if not thousands of people would have to be kept silent--it's just not possible.
HKCavalier"
Not that much of a conspiracy there, Cavalier. The general population had been told by the administration that the jews were a menace that needed to be erradicated. The jews were rounded up, placed into ghettos, then trucked or trained away, never to return. What happened next didn't take a large imagination or a leap of faith. The holocaust worked so well, not because the government lied to the people, but rather because the people were ready, able, and willing to lie to themselves.
Anyway, if a modern conspiracy theorist observed the holocaust story, it would go much differently.
"You see all those jews being taken away? I bet you think the government is getting rid of them. Not so. That would be the obvious impression, but in reality, they are being taken to a secret Semetic base in the Black Forest. They have seized control of the government, and are consolidating their power base. Meanwhile, we think the Jewish threat is ended. Hitler? He's in on it! You've seen his spirited posturing, you don't think that's serious, do you? He's so bombastic it's an obvious lie. He's working with them. He keeps the German citizens in the city, subject to firebombings, while the Jews are safe in their secret compound. While we think the jews are gone, they are really controlling everything... it's probably already too late."
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Hey! Its the Table of Contents to the 'Hitchhikers Guide to Crazy Talk'
Introduction by Barbara Steisand
Chapter 1: Moon Landings...Yeah Right
Chapter 2: Kennedy Really Killed by _________
Chapter 3: Elvis has not left the Building
Chapter 4: No Holocaust, All those Jews are still alive and secretly running the world from an underground bunker in Hollywood.
Chapter 5: 9/11...Not only did it never really happen, but the US Govt. is Responsible
Chapter 6: Fixed Elections since 1872
Chapter 7: Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton
Chapter 8: Reality TV and You
Chapter 9: They want your guns
Chapter 10: 101 Uses for Tin Foil
Chapter 11: Aliens from Space
Chapter 12: Aliens from Mexico
Chapter 14: Aliens from NAFTA (With a special analysis of Ross Perot's ears)
Chapter 15: What really happened to Chapter 13
Chapter 16: The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
Chapter 17: The Even Vaster Left Wing Conspiracy
Chapter 18: The Really Really Vast Centrist Conspiracy
Chapter 19: Contrails
Chapter 20: DUI Laws and PirateNews
Its goes on...its a long book, but doesn't really say anything.
H
Personally, I'm not sure I approve of posts which cause people to snort Pepsi out their noses, then choke on triscuit crackers whilst pounding the table trying to get air back in lungs evacuated by hysterical laughter.
Seriously, Hero--I think I need to see a doctor!
________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.
Vote Firefly! http://www.richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html
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This is magical thinking. When you look at a skyscraper it seems massive and extremely solid, it doesn't seem reasonable that a plane could damage it enough to bring it down. Once you decide that can't happen you have to find some explanation as to why it DID happen and from there things get screwy.
The problem with any structure is that it has to be able to support its own weight. For the kinds of buildings most of us live or work in, 2 or 3 story buildings, this is not an issue because the strength of the materials used greatly exceeds the forces being applied to it.
For high rise buildings though there is a problem. Usually strong means heavy, so the stronger you make a structure the heavier it is, the heavier it is the stronger it needs to be to support the extra weight. To build high you have to manage the weight and build a structure just strong enough to deal with the forces you expect to encounter. Over engineer too much and the weight/strength paradox escallates. In addition the stronger you build something the more space the structure takes up, space that you could be renting for profit.
So despite bing huge and solid looking the WTC was not massively stong, just as strong as it needed to be much like the airliner that hit it (aviation being another area where weight/stength is a tradeoff.) So despite appearences what you saw was what you got. You are right in thinking that a single plane could not destroy the WTC, but the weight of the WTC was more than capable of pulverising most of the materials used to construct it. All that was needed was something to greatly upset the ballence between the forces trying to tear the building appart and the structure holding it together.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
And how Santa can drive that sleigh around the Earth in 24 hours.
Hate to break it to you, Causal...but if Santa starts his journey on the other side of the world, due to time zones he actually has 48 hours to complete his journey. Actually, very do-able considering his magical powers.
Side note to Hero - Your list is wonderful, but now my monitor has Fresca all over it.
Quote:
Chapter 20: DUI Laws and PirateNews
Classic stuff. Classic.
*wishes she could play a .wav file of Mr Burns saying "Excellent" in this place.
I'm sorry, what was the topic?
oh, yeah. September 11th.
Is there any way I can charge someone back for the hour of my time I just wasted? Where would I send the bill?
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Antimason, this is for you...
Well I just got back from Roswell,
where the aliens have been.
And if you ask the feds the cause well,
they'll only lie again.
Now I'm hunted by the gumshoes
and I'm wanted by the cops.
Cause they think that I may be the guy
Making circles in the crops.
And I know that there's a conspiracy,
from the voices in my head.
Elvis lives it's clear to me
it's McCartney who is dead.
And if the Mars men
should come again,
and take me, I will go.
I will take a trip
on their rocket ship.
God bless the UFO.
Wish I could take credit for that but I'm not sure where I heard it.
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Quote:Exactly. The Holocaust worked, because of conspiratorial thinking about the Jews. The Jew was always at the center of the ills that plagued the world, sitting in his big office in his big bank, conspiring with other wealthy Jews to steal the wealth and the livelihood of the German people. The Holocaust is, in fact, a perfect example of the damage that conspiracy theories can cause when taken to their natural extreme. And the reason why we need to avoid them, particularly when they're used to generalize groups of people.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Not that much of a conspiracy there, Cavalier. The general population had been told by the administration that the jews were a menace that needed to be erradicated. The jews were rounded up, placed into ghettos, then trucked or trained away, never to return. What happened next didn't take a large imagination or a leap of faith. The holocaust worked so well, not because the government lied to the people, but rather because the people were ready, able, and willing to lie to themselves.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The Holocaust is, in fact, a perfect example of the damage that conspiracy theories can cause when taken to their natural extreme. And the reason why we need to avoid them, particularly when they're used to generalize groups of people.
Wow, thats extremely well stated and an excellent point and we, if not all mankind, are enriched by having it stated so well. Thus it has no place on this board.
Didn't you read the disclaimer...
"Abandon all thought ye who post here."
H
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Back to WTC - until given solid evidence I tend toward LIHOP.
Though, I've changed my mind about Bush's potential involvement. I used to think Bush didn't know - he was so effin clueless in the class and scared spitless during his WH speech. OTOH it could be that the ones in the know told him something was going to happen, got him out of the way and clearly forgot to give him instructions. Maybe they didn't realize quite how brainless he was. And maybe they didn't tell him how BIG it was going to be and that's why he was so scaredy. So I've reversed my thinking to believe perhaps he did know something.
Many of the hijackers were Saudis. And the Bushes had close relations to the Saudi royal family and their intelligence sources. A word on the QT could easily have spread among a select group. It never came to light why Bush said he 'knew' it was bin Laden within days of the attack. But then why the US had to spend months combing through millions of papers and video tapes in Afghanistan trying to find proof.
At the same time the US was already plotting to invade Iraq because Iraq was breaking OPEC and the Saudi fortune. So the US was welcoming to the idea of an excuse to invade Iraq.
Like the Iraq war, I see 9/11 as the perfect storm of mendacity.
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Quote:
originally posted by SevenPercent-
A child could argue against the claim you made in this post. I haven't seen evidence that this was the case. But are last minute ticket purchases always on flight manifests?
right... Alqaeda needed "years of planning" to fool the FAA, NORAD, take flight training, learn the ins-and outs of commercial airline systems... and then wait till the LAST MINUTE, the very morning, to buy the tickets? get real. Mohammed Atta even coincidentally left luggage behind in Boston with a conveneint list of all his accomplices and a terror "training manual".. what an F-cken JOKE! you believe that? you probably also believe that they really did find ATTAS passport, which somehow miraculously survived the intense fireball of the crash, that supposedly caused a 110 story building to melt and EXPLODE into its footprint in 10 sec.
i mean.. whos the conspiracy theorist? you believe an outright fantasy handed to you by the CIA and FBI.. the same people who created the problem to begin with
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Flight personnel had up until this point been trained NOT TO RESIST hijackers, idiot. Normally they land in Cuba, no one is hurt, and everyone goes home. No one had done this before.
yah.. and NORAD HAS NEVER BEFORE FAILED TO RESPOND TO 4 SEPERATE altered flights or hijackings either; so which is more relevant? what happened on the plane, or how the planes completely altered their courses, for over 45-60min, without being noticed! that takes government complicity, the hijackers ALONE COULD NOT HAVE PULLED IT OFF! unless your one of those who belief Osama, back in afghanistan in a cave, by computer uplink- shut off the transponders lol! what kind of sheep would have played it cool and let some alleged "hijacker" compromise the lives of an entire plane, equipped solely with some *box cutters? the more i say it out loud, the more utterly incredibly it sounds
Quote:
Since when did turning a plane become a complex maneuver? I'll bet 99% of this board could "turn joystick to the right" on a plane. It's not like they were doing loops in the air. I'd like to know what maneuvers were complex, since they weren't evading any attack aircraft. The plane was already in the air, and - if you had forgotten - the terrorists were trained pilots.
youve said all you need to say. hey.. go fly a 757 will ya!? just take a guess and engage any number of levers and guages and switches you see..and try to fly that at 200-300 mph and hit 75% of your targets.. blindly. its that easy??? the plane that hit the pentagon, in order for it to punch a whole in it like it did, would have had to fly 10ft off the ground, with an incredible descent angel, at a claimed 200+ mph! you think a hijacker with box cutters pulled this off.. when their own flight school instructors HERE IN AMERICA said they couldnt fly Cesnas. for a 757 thats almost phsyically impossible, with air resistance and turbulance, to do that.. and the first pictures of the impact show no damage to the pentagon lawn.. so it never 'skid'. theres just no way... and for a 50ton plane to nearly dissappear within the building, to the extent that the first firemen on scene admitted on camera that he 'didnt see any signs of a plane crash'... thats worth noting, ok
all im asking, is..lets actually investigate the evidence, shall we? thats normally what happens with a crime scene! the thing is with most of you the government and mass media very cleverly bipassed any investigation, and told you what the FBI and CIA and Whitehouse already knew and wanted you to believe; and you didnt question a bit of it
Quote:
They hit 2 110 story buildings and the pentagon.
and the buildings didnt collapse after they were hit... they just burned; AND NOT AT STEEL MELTING TEMPERATURES EITHER! their were people standing outside the impact marks.. how much more 'proof' do you need. all those other floors that were perfectly intact pulvarized in a matter of seconds.. that has NEVER happened before.
where was the
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Just a note.
about 20 years ago the BBC had a show called something like "you have control" where teams consisting of a random celeb and a member of the public where given control of vaious types of vehicle. The show finished every week with the teams on BA's Concorde simulator where they simulated the famous disaster movie scenario "the crew is taken sick, you must land the plane." Not one of these teams, who had never flown before, ever crashed in normal fight. A couple completely screwed the landing but most actually landed ok just overshot the runway. IIRC two teams made perfect landings.
The secret? The automatic pilot can fly the plane solo, all you need to do is give it a heading and it will take you where you want to go. Even Concordes flight landing aids, though not state of the art at that time, were good enough to help bring her down. All you needed to do was know what lines to keep the various pointers between, kids raised on modern video games would have no problems.
So flying a plane is not biggie. The difficult paty is getting airborne and landing, neither of which was a problem in this case.
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