Accurate Portrayal Of Frontier Planets

POSTED BY: DakotaSmith
UPDATED: Thursday, June 10, 2004 13:04
VIEWED: 25056
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TINYTIMM

Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:20 PM

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1. Why did the colony planet need a train at all?

Move goods to heavy and bulky for aircraft. Trains, even with an investment in track of some kind, are very good at that sort of lift.

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2. Why use revolvers when automatics are easier to make?

Unreliable, low quality ammunition. Not to mention using specialty ammo, such as shot loads, teargas rounds, armor piercing etc. All of which can be handled by a revolver, but a semi-auto is particular what it eats.

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3. The fashion.

Cheong Sam, enhances the beauty of women has been around centuries. Australian Drover Coat in OILSKIN for Joss' sake! Sillyest piece of clothing ever to command $300 plus. Corsets...I won't go there. Elbow length gloves. Incredibly silly but popular.

Jeff
Whose family was in Retail Rags last generation. Lane Bryant...which may explain my preference for well-rounded beauty.

RINGWRAITH

Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:42 PM

Thanks for posting the images but I do have a small request:

next time, could you please post a link to the images or post images that are smaller? I don't have a high speed connection (or a fast computer) and big images like that tend to cripple this poor little thing.

Plus the images are right from the Fox website and this might be a violation of copyright, unless you specificially say that they're from the Fox website. Best bet would be to just put a link to these images, that way Haken doesn't have to worry about any lawyers breathing down his door.

I don't mind images but those were just a tad too big. Really nice, but a little big.

Thanks.

************************************************
"How will this end?"
"In fire."
--Babylon 5, 'The Coming of Shadows'
************************************************

ZICSOFT

Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:45 PM

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Unreliable, low quality ammunition. Not to mention using specialty ammo, such as shot loads, teargas rounds, armor piercing etc. All of which can be handled by a revolver, but a semi-auto is particular what it eats.

Count on Jeff to clear up the little mysteries of firearms! Which also explains an interesting detail in Serenity. (Not really a spoiler, but I wouldn't want to piss off certain people.)

Select to view spoiler:

There's a shootout involving Mal and a government agent. Mal, of course, has his trusty 6-shooter, while the G-man packs what looks vaguely like a semi-auto. It seemed to me that the gun was bulkier and the barrel smaller than contemporary guns of that type, but I could have been mistaken. And of course the government would have access to expensive factory-produced rounds.

I was going to quote that famous story about General Patton switching to his famous revolvers after an army-issue automatic went off unexpectedly. Just a story, alas:

http://www.pattonhq.com/unknown/chap05.html

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

TERAPH

Monday, September 23, 2002 2:42 AM

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next time, could you please post a link to the images or post images that are smaller?

All I did was paste the URL (and I picked the smallest images). The discussion board actually brought them up.

I'll see if I can adjust the post so it doesn't do that...

MILLERNATE

Monday, September 23, 2002 3:35 AM

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I was reading rec.arts.sf.tv (I think that's the title) and someone was saying that trains have been around a LONG time and big corporations/governments/train unions would have fits if they couldn't have a train;

Well if you were reading RAST (which I doubt since that group is having a nice big pile on regarding that show) then the same post was made at alt.tv.buffy-v.-slayer as well

. Actually though the corporations etc. wouldn't really matter since it seems that The Alliance is exploiting the planets directly thus they can tell any corps. (which I'm not sure of how many there'd actually be, fascism doesn't do a great job promoting non-government business) to buzz off.

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what would they do if everyone had their own private air strip? The government would want control of land and perhaps even a rail line or two. He made a good point that this is how it's been and how it will be. Plus it's a reliable means of transportation and you can charge an arm and a leg for transport, keeping people impoverished.

THe main problem is that Train travel is one of the most inefficient means of transporting goods in a situation when you have a spread out population. This is because you need to worry about far too many costs: 1. The potential cost in money and time to provide maintenace for the train itself. 2. The cost needed to build the track in both time and money. 3. The cost needed in both time and money to provide maintenance for the track.

When you have a fairly spread out population (as it seemed in that world) this simply isn't time or cost effective, especially when you have space travel. Far easier to build one centralized landing area for each town/settlement and drop the cargo there. While you'd probably have the same number of things in terms of monetary cost the time saved would make it far more effective.

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As for the sci-fi fans Joss et al have to win over, I say

The problem is that there has never been a Sci-FI series that has succeeded without the support of this group (just ask the corpse of Earth 2 how well it survived the absence of support from that group).

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Personally I think the ones who will really rip it apart are the die-hard "trekkies," not really sci-fi fans in general. I mean, movies and TV shows that are sci-fi almost always involve sound in space and yet no one complains about it. It's "artistic license."

Do a groups.google.com search for Firefly and check out some of the Sci-fi Usenet groups. Most of these people aren't die hard trekkies and they are happily raking it over the coals as crap. And, unlike elsewhere in the world, the internet/usenet is a very accurate representation of what these people are thinking.

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I'm sorry you're visiting Television Without Pity. A care package will be sent your way for your troubles.

NOt a fan I take it? By the way...care package? Will it include the Angel UK DVDs?

Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star

PANDORA

Monday, September 23, 2002 3:50 AM

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Originally posted by millernate:
There was also the issue of chinese lanterns on the train but since I didn't actually notice I'm not giving it its own section.

Well, I can't speak to planes, trains, and automobiles, but there are two things I can say about Chinese laterns, and one is kind of spoilery from Playboy's interview with the delightful Morena Baccarin:

Select to view spoiler:

Apparently, China became the dominant force on Earth prior to the dispersion of its peoples throughout space, resulting in the heavy influence it seems to have had on fashion, home decor, and language.

Secondly, Asian art is really beautiful and pretty cool. Lots of interior decorators, fashion designers, and even architects in the West have implemented Asian design concepts and artistic styles in their work. Neat.

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3. The fashion. I sincerely doubt that fashions popular in the 1800s will ever come back into style again. Sorry but it might have made more sense to have the clothing be more modern (read: how you see ranch clothing today) might make sense.

Well, I don't see why not. Hell, ball gowns highly reminiscent of King Louis XIV's court were highly en vogue for most of the mid-nineties, and you can still see such influences today. Empire waisted gowns, originating from Napoleon's wife, Josephine, (whose style in turn was probably influenced by Hellenic and Roman women's clothing back during the days of the Roman empire and before) are in and out every fifteen/twenty years or so, and don't even get me started on hair.

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I know these are nitpicks but these are the type of thing that Sci-fi fans (the set of people that this who must win over if it is to survive) will notice.

Mmmm... I'm not so sure about that. First that all sci-fi fans will notice/care if they do notice, and second that all sci-fi fans must be won over for the show to do well. The show stands on its own merit, even beyond the genre. While it's true that genrephiles are going to have to generate the initial buzz, not all SpecFic fans are nitpickers, or at least unwilling to look past whatever it is they might nitpick. After all, there's a difference between nitpicking and just looking for things with which one can find fault.

Pandora
lovely.

"Computer games don't affect kids negatively; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."

-Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc.
1988

JOHNNYANGEL

Monday, September 23, 2002 4:16 AM

The point has come up with respect to America's new interest in the Middle East. They've got a real mixed bag of technology out there. Cellular phones are higher tech than phone lines, but they're much easier to implement. You don't have to have a lot of infrastructure. There are also cultural factors. The Amish have taken to cell phones, which seems bizzare, since they still won't use cars.

I'm happy with the balance Firefly seems to strike. I can believe that in a world that doesn't have the infrastructure or culture that ours did, horses may be more practical than tractors. I'm convinced that they gave this a lot of thought because of the scene in which Mal gets thrown through a force field window, which flickers and fixes itself. That detail tells us that this is a world in which this technology, amazing to us, is cheaper than glass.

SADGEEZER

Monday, September 23, 2002 5:26 PM

Hmm... All the arguments are pretty good, but I honestly don't think Joss gives a damn. I think he's thinking characterisation, characterisation, characterisation - bugger the rest!

The technology angle is irritating as hell for this Limey (downloading episodes from the newsgroup) who thinks it arrogant as hell that one of the least prevalent of world cultures in the last thousand years (19th century west continental America) be the one that all future 'frontier folk' should choose to emulate!. There can be no other real reason for a wild west space frontier in Whedonverse than because he’s a wild west fan. Maybe some people that aren’t from the USA are Roundheads or Cavaliers fans or a Samurai fans or Conquistadors fans.

As for the lack of aliens and low tech argument, watching the root'n toot'n wild west show with six-shooters and pump action rifles ….. and spaceships ... hmmm. It doesn't come much more alien than that!

I think Joss can handle criticism of his show, he knows we love him. It's just that I honestly don't think he gives a toss about the details. Real sci fi fans (the scary sort that go to conventions dressed as Clingons), those that look for at least a small amount of realism in their sci fi will chew up Firefly and spit it out! And I think we should be prepared for that. Joss didn’t write a sci fi show in the same genre as Babylon 5 or Farscape or Andromeda (the thought behind the weaponry in Andromeda was exceptional and actually made the show, for me, more interesting)– Firefly is different. It should be taken as seriously (in terms of a sci fi show) as say Buffy as a documentary about Californian teenagers.

PS. TV without pity is a cool site by the way. They are very objective (and funny too).

SadGeezers Guide to Firefly
http://www.sadgeezer.com/firefly

RINGWRAITH

Monday, September 23, 2002 10:04 PM

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Originally posted by millernate:

Well if you were reading RAST (which I doubt since that group is having a nice big pile on regarding that show) then the same post was made at alt.tv.buffy-v.-slayer as well .

Uh, actually I have been reading there, but only recently (no, not posting there) and I'm avoiding the Buffy ng because I tend to not read there in the "off season." So please don't say I haven't been reading there when in fact I have. Thank you.

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Do a groups.google.com search for Firefly and check out some of the Sci-fi Usenet groups. Most of these people aren't die hard trekkies and they are happily raking it over the coals as crap. And, unlike elsewhere in the world, the internet/usenet is a very accurate representation of what these people are thinking.

Actually I think the people on USENET don't reflect what's going on in real life. Ripping things apart (TV shows, music, movies) has become a fad at most places. If USENET had an accurate representation of what people think then a few years ago the only people who watched/liked the XF were teenage girls who wanted Mulder and Scully to get it on.

At RAST there were people ripping Firefly apart (and I'm sure at other ng's--like I said, I think it's trendy for some people to tear something down because it makes them feel better) but some people there did like it. The one guy at RAST who didn't like the show (rated it a 2.0 out of 5), one of his reasons was that Joss has made sure that "God" is absent on the Serenity. Uh, yeah...he figured that out how? You can please some of the people some of the time...

USENET is no more accurate than this forum. Yeah there's a lot of OPINIONS there but that doesn't necessarily reflect what other people think.

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NOt a fan I take it? By the way...care package? Will it include the Angel UK DVDs?

Mostly because like a lot of USENET, it's like it's fashionable to rip something to shreds. "Look how cool and sarcastic I am! I rock!"

************************************************
"How will this end?"
"In fire."
--Babylon 5, 'The Coming of Shadows'
************************************************

SHUGGIE

Monday, September 23, 2002 10:12 PM

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Originally posted by SadGeezer:
Hmm... All the arguments are pretty good, but I honestly don't think Joss gives a damn. I think he's thinking characterisation, characterisation, characterisation - bugger the rest!

I agree - Joss is all about story and characters. Scientific accuracy is not high on his list of priorities.

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The technology angle is irritating as hell for this Limey (downloading episodes from the newsgroup) who thinks it arrogant as hell that one of the least prevalent of world cultures in the last thousand years (19th century west continental America) be the one that all future 'frontier folk' should choose to emulate!. There can be no other real reason for a wild west space frontier in Whedonverse than because he’s a wild west fan. Maybe some people that aren’t from the USA are Roundheads or Cavaliers fans or a Samurai fans or Conquistadors fans.

Right now the USA is the only super-power left. China isn't quite a super-power but it's got sheer weight of numbers. So it's at least one plausible future that they'd form the Alliance.

Roundheads and Cavaliers seem distinctly implausible to me on the other hand.

Samurai - hmm maybe we'll see that in episode 2 or beyond?

I don't think it's arrogance.

Oh and I'm a limey too.

Shug

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