Firefly Episode Discussions
Inara's true age
POSTED BY: PirateCat
UPDATED: Monday, January 1, 2007 21:41
VIEWED: 17729
PAGE 5 of 6
Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:18 PM
Hey Causal.. is there a reason you used my quote in your post? Because I'm not seeing a connection there. *much confused*
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:20 PM
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Originally posted by Causal:
I'm just curious why we have to have Inara be sympathetic to the Independents
because an alliance loyalist would have ratted on river and simon first chance they got ?
jayne and book were specifically defined as NOT 'friendly' with alliance, but even they aided the feds.
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Seriously, I know that the Browncoats were supposed to be the good guys,
i'm not sold on the idea of browncoats being good guys. they're just the other guys... and especially in a verse where one side is the law, the other side will by nature be largely criminal. which is also separate from good and bad. (the line between good criminals and bad criminals is quite clearly shown at times on Firefly)
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but I just have a hard time believing that it was because of her secret support for the Independents and her driving need to get out to the border.
You're the only one saying she supports the Independants here.
I said she was too young at the time to give a damn one way or the other, but years later when she meets Mal, she sympathizes with them. NOT supports... sympathizes.
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Bagheera:
but perhaps a small part of her WAS considering accepting, as he told her she was wanted and needed... something that Mal didnt have the strength to do... (mind you, I figured most of the dwelling on the offer had to do with seeing how Mal would react)
To me, it's more about manipulating him into shutting up. He can't stop pushing and insulting her even at an event like that party where she's present in a professional capacity and telling him that Ath made her an offer - even one she doesn't consider seriously - is enough to make Mal nervous enough to be peaceable. She knows that he's attracted to her, not just physically, and she's not above using that to her advantage - or to Simon's in the pilot eppy. She likes torturing Mal in that way, perhaps to get back at him for the constant disrespect for her choices.
Not to mention, even if Mal asked her to stay, this would essentially solve none of the things that stand between them. Her job, his inability to accept it, the unfairness of demanding that she be the one to give up everything for what is essentially a chance, 50/50, at something. Or maybe even less, considering how many relationships ever work out forever.
(My shippy heart says "Foreveerrrr!" but my shippy heart is neither Mal's nor Inara's head.)
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except of course for leaving behind 'her best stuff'.
Which might also have been a way of making sure she's leaving behind a piece of herself on a ship she loves. It may even have been her excuse for seeing them again at some point, but that doesn't imply that it's all about Mal! Coming! To! Get! Her!(tm)
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and by the time she had left, it was becoming apparent that Mal didnt have the passion, or whatever, to confess to her (ironically enough, there were all "dozens of suitors confessing their love to save her from this life" which she didnt take half as seriously as Mal).... she wasnt trying to be a dramaqueen and look for a casablanca moment in either direction... but she did leave Mal an out in case his passions did stir, in the form of her stuff, which he obviously never took up on.
I'll disagree here. Mal is actually pretty demonstrative in his way.
Asking her not to stay with Atherton in Shindig is a big one. In Mal/Inara speak that's almost a declaration. And Inara? Walks away.
He refuses to take payment for helping Nandi simply because she's Inara's friend. Inara? Tells him she'll pay because she wants theirs to be a business relationship only. Watch his heart crack at that one.
He's about to be "truthsome". Inara interrupts him from saying what they both know before he can utter it out loud.
It's not passion Mal lacks, in my opinion. It's both his attitude ("I don't disrespect you, I just disrespect all your life choices and the work you love and define yourself by and thus by default imply that you're either a sell-out or too stupid to live.") and the fact that their lives are so impossible to combine.
If he could accept her job without judgment, love her unconditionally, I think Inara could easily give it up. But that unspoken - among the spoken - implication that her job makes her unworthy, that's a big obstacle.
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Inara was fairly smart in that regard... how much time passed til the movie ? a year... and still he had trouble ... but oddly Inara still hadnt attached herself to someone... so it wasnt that she was just looking for any old person ... but rather the right person... at the right time of their life...
Six months, roughly. I don't think she was ever looking, really, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that she wasn't "attached". Mal's the unplanned exception in that he ever even made her contemplate and want an attachment.
What I find to be a huge step is that she possibly hasn't taken any clients, either. (Which it says in the early version script that was floating around, so it's semi-canon but not binding.)
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Yep. exactly... but... i think if Mal had been willing toNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Hey Causal.. is there a reason you used my quote in your post? Because I'm not seeing a connection there. *much confused*
Well, you were making much of Inara's "independence"--and I'm just not convinced that's why she's out on the border barely getting by. And even if she was out there because she needed to be out on her own, that hardly establishes the thesis that she was secretly in support of the Independents during the war.
________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by Causal:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Hey Causal.. is there a reason you used my quote in your post? Because I'm not seeing a connection there. *much confused*
Well, you were making much of Inara's "independence"--and I'm just not convinced that's why she's out on the border barely getting by. And even if she was out there because she needed to be out on her own, that hardly establishes the thesis that she was secretly in support of the Independents during the war.
...
I was using the term in its original definition, not the fictionally political one, in that instance.
I already earlier pointed out that I do not think Inara is or was a supporter of the Independents. Just that she has shown apathy and distrust toward the Alliance (which I consider to be wide-spread even on Core planets) and a willingness to aid in breaking the law and sheltering Alliance fugitives.
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Sunday, December 24, 2006 3:54 AM
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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
She likes torturing Mal in that way, perhaps to get back at him for the constant disrespect for her choices.
He doesnt disrespect her or her choices.
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Her job, his inability to accept it, the unfairness of demanding that she be the one to give up everything for what is essentially a chance, 50/50, at something.
He accepts her and her job fine. There's a big difference between tugging at the pigtails of the gal you like to get her attention, and pulling the hair out of her head. (look how he treats Inara's friend to see how comfortable he is with whores).
If anyone doesnt respect Inara's job, its Inara herself.
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Or maybe even less, considering how many relationships ever work out forever.
I'd like to hold some faith that Inara's abilities are enough to be able to discern who is and isnt compatible with her, which is why she puts Mal through such rigorous testing... when a mate is chosen with barely a glance.
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Which might also have been a way of making sure she's leaving behind a piece of herself on a ship she loves. It may even have been her excuse for seeing them again at some point, but that doesn't imply that it's all about Mal! Coming! To! Get! Her!
She didnt see them again, except when pressured by the operative... and its not so much about Mal "coming to get her" as Mal showing some initiative in the relationship. If he doesnt want the relationship bad enough to say so, then she realizes it stands little hope of permanence.
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Asking her not to stay with Atherton in Shindig is a big one. In Mal/Inara speak that's almost a declaration. And Inara? Walks away.
If I recall correctly... Inara screamed out something like "Please dont kill him daddy ! I love him !"
and while I saw the presence of some selfishness in Mal's 'last request', I thought it was borne more from selflessness for Inara, he KNEW what Ath was, and wanted to ensure Inara's need to be needed didnt let her fall prey to him.
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He refuses to take payment for helping Nandi simply because she's Inara's friend. Inara? Tells him she'll pay because she wants theirs to be a business relationship only. Watch his heart crack at that one.
Watch Inara's crack as she says that. He turned down payment, not because she's Inara's friend, but because Inara asked him for help. If Inara's friend had asked him and offered payment, he likely wouldnt have held any reservations about taking it.
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It's not passion Mal lacks, in my opinion.
When it comes to defending those he cares about he's very passionate... but when it actually comes to admitting he cares about those people... he turns cowardly... I cant really explain it too well, except that I'd suppose its intended as an aftereffect of losing everything he cared about at Serenity valley. He gave it his all, and it didnt mean anything.
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If he could accept her job without judgment, love her unconditionally, I think Inara could easily give it up. But that unspoken - among the spoken - implication that her job makes her unworthy, that's a big obstacle.
Not really... Inara's friend got past that obstacle in only a few minutes.
The obstacle relating to Inara's job lies in her own mind, and not Mal's... and Mal's obstacle lies in his cowardice regarding women
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What I find to be a huge step is that she possibly hasn't taken any clients, either.
Huh... wasnt aware of that, would seem to back up my idea that the problems with being a companion were hers and not Mal's.
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what does little Kaylee actually know about the key moments in Mal and Inara's relationship?
Kaylee probably knows more about Mal and Inara's relationship then Mal does... just like Inara knew/knows more about Kaylee and Simons relationship then Simon did. (although Simon wasnt QUITE so yellow in that regard as Mal, just a little slowerpaced then Kaylee would have liked)
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She wasn'tNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Sunday, December 24, 2006 4:14 AM
Everybody on this boat has secrets even ones coming on board. There has been some good posts with theories I didn't know, great stuff. Maybe a new series about FF will be called unsolved mysteries. Book their's another one. Inara is from Sihnon a core planet the other Londonium. I believe she is alliance all the way. My thing is her secret is she left the house to not be suspecious on her youth. Maybe she's taking illegal drugs. Her reason for picking Serenity is like Mal's when she saw it she fell in love with it. Still her reason for going out to the border planets is a mystery. I just don't know dog gone you fox. How did this show get cancelled.
"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".
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Sunday, December 24, 2006 5:17 AM
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Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by Bagheera:
but perhaps a small part of her WAS considering accepting, as he told her she was wanted and needed... something that Mal didnt have the strength to do... (mind you, I figured most of the dwelling on the offer had to do with seeing how Mal would react)
To me, it's more about manipulating him into shutting up. He can't stop pushing and insulting her even at an event like that party where she's present in a professional capacity and telling him that Ath made her an offer - even one she doesn't consider seriously - is enough to make Mal nervous enough to be peaceable. She knows that he's attracted to her, not just physically, and she's not above using that to her advantage - or to Simon's in the pilot eppy. She likes torturing Mal in that way, perhaps to get back at him for the constant disrespect for her choices.
Not to mention, even if Mal asked her to stay, this would essentially solve none of the things that stand between them. Her job, his inability to accept it, the unfairness of demanding that she be the one to give up everything for what is essentially a chance, 50/50, at something. Or maybe even less, considering how many relationships ever work out forever.
(My shippy heart says "Foreveerrrr!" but my shippy heart is neither Mal's nor Inara's head.)Quote:
except of course for leaving behind 'her best stuff'.
Which might also have been a way of making sure she's leaving behind a piece of herself on a ship she loves. It may even have been her excuse for seeing them again at some point, but that doesn't imply that it's all about Mal! Coming! To! Get! Her!(tm)Quote:
and by the time she had left, it was becoming apparent that Mal didnt have the passion, or whatever, to confess to her (ironically enough, there were all "dozens of suitors confessing their love to save her from this life" which she didnt take half as seriously as Mal).... she wasnt trying to be a dramaqueen and look for a casablanca moment in either direction... but she did leave Mal an out in case his passions did stir, in the form of her stuff, which he obviously never took up on.
I'll disagree here. Mal is actually pretty demonstrative in his way.
Asking her not to stay with Atherton in Shindig is a big one. In Mal/Inara speak that's almost a declaration. And Inara? Walks away.
He refuses to take payment for helping Nandi simply because she's Inara's friend. Inara? Tells him she'll pay because she wants theirs to be a business relationship only. Watch his heart crack at that one.
He's about to be "truthsome". Inara interrupts him from saying what they both know before he can utter it out loud.
It's not passion Mal lacks, in my opinion. It's both his attitude ("I don't disrespect you, I just disrespect all your life choices and the work you love and define yourself by and thus by default imply that you're either a sell-out or too stupid to live.") and the fact that their lives are so impossible to combine.
If he could accept her job without judgment, love her unconditionally, I think Inara could easily give it up. But that unspoken - among the spoken - implication that her job makes her unworthy, that's a big obstacle.
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Inara was fairly smart in that regard... how much time passed til the movie ? a year... and still he had trouble ... but oddly Inara still hadnt attached herself to someone... so it wasnt that she was just looking for any old person ... but rather the right person... at the right time of their life...
Six months, roughly. I don't think she was ever looking, really, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that she wasn't "attached". Mal's the unplanned exception in that he ever even made her contemplate and want an attachment.
What I find to be a huge step is that she possibly hasn't taken any clients, either. (Which it says in the early version script that was floating around, so it's semi-canon but not binding.)
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Yep. exactly..NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Sunday, December 24, 2006 6:06 AM
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Originally posted by Diz:
Not a rumor.
Yeah, it is true.
Morena talked about it at her Q&A at SFX in Toronto in September this year, and confirmed that it was a drug that would kill anyone who had sex with her.
~2x2~
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Wednesday, December 27, 2006 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Bagheera:
She likes torturing Mal in that way, perhaps to get back at him for the constant disrespect for her choices.
He doesnt disrespect her or her choices.
Doesn't he?
Mal: I might not show respect to your job, but he didn't
respect you.
That's one of the most complex quotes in the show. Because.. if her job is something Inara chose freely and believes in (she gives the appearance of both, certainly, and if she doesn't then Mal doesn't know) just how deep can a respect be that somehow deliberately separates her from those choices and that belief in order to respect one but not the other?
In other words, what about Inara does he respect if he can so easily discount the things she holds in very high regard? Wouldn't her belief in those things be grounds for contempt? If not, why not? Is it because she's somehow "misguided" like a feeble child?
That's not a clear-cut line Mal is sitting on.
To be clear, I do believe that deep down, Mal doesn't have a problem with her job, that he respect Inara and her choices, and that his displayed contempt for her job is a defence mechanism.
However, even with her powers of intuition and understanding, Inara still sees the behavior that Mal displays, the contempt and ridicule, and just what sort of weak woman would completely discount that kind of treatment, even knowing what triggers it?
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He accepts her and her job fine. There's a big difference between tugging at the pigtails of the gal you like to get her attention, and pulling the hair out of her head. (look how he treats Inara's friend to see how comfortable he is with whores).
However, considering Inara's decidedly hurt reaction when Mal introduced her to Shepherd book, I'd say this is more than pigtail pulling at least half of the time. There's a viciousness to his voice when he says it the first time and the fact that he keeps saying it, even when Inara reacts with as much vehemence as she does during their sword practice in 'Shindig' says that this isn't always goodnatured.
Nandi, being a whore and not a Companion, (a distinction Mal loves to derride) is in a different category. There are no class issues, no complex feelings between her and Mal. And as I said, I don't think Mal has a problem with prostitution in generall, but he has a problem with Inara being one, which is why he attacks her for it, under the guise of attacking her profession.
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If anyone doesnt respect Inara's job, its Inara herself.
I'm confused. What do you base this on?
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I'd like to hold some faith that Inara's abilities are enough to be able to discern who is and isnt compatible with her, which is why she puts Mal through such rigorous testing... when a mate is chosen with barely a glance.
Testing? What testing does she put him through? Not to mention, her mates are chosen with deliberation ("a compatibility of spirit") and professionally. Clients is the term. Her emotions there are of secondary importance, and this gives about zero insight into her private sexual habits, aside from the fact that she doesn't appear to indulge privately at all while on Serenity, nbotwithstanding the uncertainty about Guild Rules regarding that subject.
I don't think that choosing a life partner (especially when one ostentatiously is not looking for one) is that much easier for a Companion than it is for any other person. Half or more marriages these days end in divorce and I bet that most of those people were very sure of their compatibility. There are many unpredictable factors and emotions are not the best guide. Inara's volatile when it comes to Mal, and considering their already strained relationship I'm fairly puzzled how you can see this as her testing a life partner she has apparently decided on. She obviously has strong feelings of attraction for him but I don't see any motivation or evidence of her long-term plans or any testing.
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She didnt see them again, ex
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