Dont you think its hypocritical.....
POSTED BY: BionicBatman
UPDATED: Sunday, December 17, 2006 09:24
VIEWED: 12105
PAGE 3 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
But Soupcatcher, some folks like experiencing different cultures and their rituals. All kinds of non-catholics go to Midnight Mass much the same way travelers might do in an exotic land.
I basically agree with you, HK, that a person who doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ (shorthanded to "pwdbitdojc") really can't be accused of hypocritical actions no matter what they do. That rule book just doesn't apply (although I could see an argument for hypocrisy of someone who pretended to be LDS to participate in an LDS wedding ceremony, or something like that, for example).
However, I have a feeling that the original poster isn't ready for that conversation. Probably never will be. What I was hoping to do was to get them to rethink what it means to celebrate the birth of their Savior. So I tried to think of something that a Christian would do, on Christmas, that would have tremendous significance to them as an expression of their belief and that a pwdbitdojc would probably never do as part of their usual holiday celebration (experimentation aside).
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Soup, can you do anything else besides attack me?
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Quote:
Originally posted by BionicBatman:
That people who dont believe in God celebrate the birth of Him?
Kinda a cultural celebration , more than anything. We're brought up on the idea of celebrating the birth of JC on Dec. 25th, although that's no where near his real b-day. It's understood that the HRCC chose this date to force out the Pagan religions already celebrated through out Europe. Christmas trees have no real religious significance, yet we associate them w/ the holiday as well.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Please. Christmas trees. If it was up to me i would never have a tree. It is just a hassle to put and decorate and just as much ot take down.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:Quote:
Originally posted by BionicBatman:
Thats because it IS hypocritical for them to be celebrating it. I asked one simple question. A yes or no question. Judging people and what they are are 2 two completely different things. Dont you agree that it is hyprocritical?
Gliding right past your semantic silliness regarding judging people, I think it would help if you clarify what you mean by, "celebrate the birth of him."
I think Soup's right on this one - what do you mean by "celebrate?" If, on Xmas, they aren't worshipping Jesus' divinity, are they not celebrating the holiday?
Look, I know several atheists, and to a man (well, technically two are women) they all love Xmas. They get a tree, they give gifts, they love to see their families. But they aren't celebrating the holiday as the birth of Jesus. And another poster (man, I wish I could see the whole thread when I type without opening a new window) said that Xmas originally was a pagan holiday, which is true. Pagans can celebrate the solstice at Xmastime, atheists can revel in the spirit of the season, etc.
It's only hypocritical (and I disagree with Finn here, I believe) if they are celebrating the holiday as the birth of Jesus while claiming to be atheist. That's what a hypocrite is; someone who says one thing and does another. You can celebrate the season whether you believe or not. It doesn't make you a hypocrite to have a good time at Xmas - only if you are an atheist celebrating Christ's divinity are you a hypocrite. If you're just happy to be with people, love lights, and get a thrill from eggnog, you don't have to be anything but having a good time.
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"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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Actually, it kind of seems like you agree with me. The question that was posed is whether it is hypocritical to worship the birth of god while not believing in said god. By definition, that is probably hypocritical. The definition of a hypocrite, fundamentally, is one who puts on a false appearance of religion.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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But as Xtian will tell you, there is nothing Xtian about a tree. I'm not sure what tradition the lights come from, or the gift-giving. It's prolly pagan anyway. So I suppose you could say we're all being false pagans?
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BionicBatman:
Soup, can you do anything else besides attack me?
Sure I can. To borrow from Jim Rome, "Have a take. Don't suck."
Oh, and SevenPercent, thanks for that much clearer articulation. That's pretty much the direction I was heading with the topic (with some snark thrown in).
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Quote:I suppose, it could be viewed that way, but most people don’t really perceive the non-Christian symbolism in Christmas to have a religious significance, and they certainly don’t attribute any particularly pagan gods to it. You can have a celebration without it being religious, and for a lot of people that is precisely what I imagine Christmas is.
Originally posted by SignyM:
But as Xtian will tell you, there is nothing Xtian about a tree. I'm not sure what tradition the lights come from, or the gift-giving. It's prolly pagan anyway. So I suppose you could say we're all being false pagans?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Actually, it kind of seems like you agree with me. The question that was posed is whether it is hypocritical to worship the birth of god while not believing in said god. By definition, that is probably hypocritical. The definition of a hypocrite, fundamentally, is one who puts on a false appearance of religion.
Okay. I think I misinterpreted what you meant in that post. I thought you were suggesting that a nonbeliever could not celebrate Xmas without being a hypocrite, which I disagreed with, since there are nonreligious/non-Xtian ways of celebrating said holiday. If you just mean in the general "atheist celebrating Christ," then yes, we are in agreement, by definition.
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"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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