Out to the Black... or the moon at least

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Cruithne3753:
the LM was fuelled with hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide, which produces a flame not visible in the visible spectrum...

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Thanks for the technical backup, Cruithne!

Together, we have blown PN's theories out of the water. Wonder what kind of retraction he'll post?

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smells like bullshit, or as NASA calls it, "that fishy smell" of hypergolics.

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"The forward primary thrusters sound like exploding cannons at thrust onset; and during their firing, jets of flame shoot out from the orbiter's nose. ...The orbiter reacts to the primaries' shove by shaking slightly and moving very noticeably. For the crew on board, a series of attitude changes using primaries resembles a World War I sea battle, with cannons and mortars firing, flashes of flame shooting in all directions, and the ship's shuddering and shaking in reaction to the salvos."


Reaction Control System thruster firing on the space shuttle, taken from Joseph P. Allen's book Entering Space. Shuttle thrusters use similar fuel as Apollo Lunar Lander

The lunar ascent module engine had a 15000 N (3500 lb) thrust. The attitude control thrusters for the Apollo C/SM and LM (which had four sets of quadruple thrusters) had 490 N (110 lb) of thrust each. In comparison, the 38 thrusters for shuttle orbit control each have a nominal thrust of 3870 N (880 lb), with a range from 3114 N to 5338 N. Why is the exhaust visible from the 3870 N shuttle thruster but not from the 15000 N lunar ascent module engine?
www.ocii.com/~dpwozney/apollo1.htm

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Apollo Lunar Lander, however, was allegedly in total silence, both while taking off and landing. Both takeoff and landing require CONSTANT rocket thrust for long periods of time, especially when within several miles altitude of the surface.

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Hypergolic propellants are fuels and oxidizers which ignite on contact with each other and need no ignition source. This easy start and restart capability makes them attractive for both manned and unmanned spacecraft maneuvering systems. Another plus is their storability — they do not have the extreme temperature requirements of cryogenics.

The fuel is monomethyl hydrazine (MMH) and the oxidizer is nitrogen tetroxide (N2O4).

Hydrazine is a clear, nitrogen/hydrogen compound with a "fishy" smell. It is similar to ammonia. Nitrogen tetroxide is a reddish fluid. It has a pungent, sweetish smell. Both fluids are highly toxic, and are handled under the most stringent safety conditions. Hypergolic propellants are used in the core liquid propellant stages of the Titan family of launch vehicles, and on the second stage of the Delta.

The Space Shuttle orbiter uses hypergols in its Orbital Maneuvering Subsystem (OMS) for orbital insertion, major orbital maneuvers and deorbit. The Reaction Control System (RCS) uses hypergols for attitude control.

www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/nasafact/count2.htm


APOLLO LUNAR MODULE

WEIGHT: Empty: 3920 kg (8650 lb)
Crew & Propellant: 14,700 kg (32,500 lb)


FUEL: 50-50 mix of Unsymmetrical Dimethyl Hydrazine (UDMH) & Hydrazine

OXYDIZER: Nitrogen Tetroxide

THRUST: Descent Engine: 44,316 Newtons (9870 lb) maximum
4710 Newtons (1050 lb) minimum

THRUST: Ascent Engine: 15,700 Newtons (3500 lb)

www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/attm/nojs/a11.am.lm.1.html

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But official NASA artwork shows hydrazine rocket exhaust flames shooting out the butt of the apollo Lunar Lander:



The Apollo LEM rocket exhaust was so hot that it was GUARANTEED to MELT the legs off the LEM before it reached the surface of the Moon. Therefore, the hydrazine rocket motor was REQUIRED to be TURNED OFF 8 feet before touchdown. Hence the 8-foot-long "curb feelers" hanging down below the LEM's landing gear footpads. Engine shutoff at 8-foot altitude resulted in freefall of the 10,000-pound LEM, breaking the legs of the LEM

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Okay PN, we get it. No amount of evidence, no counter-argument, no other opinion matters, because you can yell louder and post more images than everyone else.

Why do we even dignify this yahoo by responding to his posts?

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Originally posted by RocketJock:

Why do we even dignify this yahoo by responding to his posts?

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Wait RocketJock! Y'know, all those paintings of rocket-blasting LM's and talk of hydraziney propellants have really changed my mind! I...I think he's RIGHT! There ARE more gamma rays on the Moon than a sun could produce!

MY GOD I'VE BEEN SO STUPID!!!!!!


...didja buy it? Chrisisall

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Originally posted by piratenews:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Is there intelligent life on planet Earth? BLUE SKY on "mars" set proves NASA is faking it again. How can NASA parachute rockets on Mars which has almost no atmosphere? How come the "Mars Rover" never runs out of electricity when solar power is so weak, and never tips over during Martian hurricanes?

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*How can NASA parachute rockets on Mars which has almost no atmosphere?

*....never tips over during Martian hurricanes?

If there's almost no atmo, how can there be hurricanes?

DUH!!

I know I'm not the only one who tires of morons who lie , troll and waste our time by filling up message boards with endless post of nothing but 100% pure conspiratorial bullshit.

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Yes, you're a troll. When I point out an obvious discrepancy of 2 conflicting realities, as alleged by NASA, you and your insanity accuses ME of stating those claims.

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You didn't quote NASA, you presented those two conflicting items as support of your argument. You said nothing in your original post about their contradicting one another. You cited those two items as evidence of your claim.

Damn, not even you can keep your bullshit straight.

Now hop back on the shortbus with your little stuffed parrot, and go the hell away.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Yes, you're a troll. When I point out an obvious discrepancy of 2 conflicting realities, as alleged by NASA, you and your insanity accuses ME of stating those claims.

Either you're a retard, or you're a govt dinfo traitor. Which is it? We already know citizen and hero are confessed govt agents, who have endless time 24/7/365 to post their brainwashing on FFF.

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I point out YOUR retard logic, and you call me the troll ? ROFLMAO! NASA has no conflicting realities, only YOU do. Those ARE your claims, clam shit for brains.

Your post, in full was the following:
- " Is there intelligent life on planet Earth? BLUE SKY on "mars" set proves NASA is faking it again. How can NASA parachute rockets on Mars which has almost no atmosphere? How come the "Mars Rover" never runs out of electricity when solar power is so weak, and never tips over during Martian hurricanes? "

I didn't bother w/ the blue sky nonsense, as NASA always points out when they use false imaging to show the contrast in their photos. Mars DOES have an atmo, though it's thinner than what we have here on Earth, which is why NASA does use parachutes to slow down their entry vehicles. You're the moron who voices cynicism over this point.

You've been completely debunked and defrocked. Get back under the sea sludge from whence you crawled.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Wait RocketJock! Y'know, all those paintings of rocket-blasting LM's and talk of hydraziney propellants have really changed my mind! I...I think he's RIGHT! There ARE more gamma rays on the Moon than a sun could produce!

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All the paintings have pretty plumes on them, because of course, the paintings are just renderings of what people thought. Most of which were painted before the actual event, but in many cases, artists continued (and still continue) to add plumes for visual effect, even today, when we know that there was no visible plume on the lander. People have an idea of what they expect to see and often that can be more powerful then the truth.

As far as blue sky on mars, why not? The earth’s blue sky is caused by Rayleigh Scatting, and there’s no reason to believe that the same laws of physics don’t also apply on Mars. Two problems: first, the Martian atmosphere is full of fine iron oxide dust and properly color corrected images from Mars, often show the atmosphere to be a butterscotch color (yellowish) because of this dust. Second, cameras used on Mars landings are digital and digital cameras must be calibrated and their images processed. Some of the images from Mars, particularly the early ones, are poorly calibrated and render bad results. These are the ones that show the Martian sky as red. No, the Martian sky is not really red; that was a result of bad calibration or image processing. But there are properly color corrected images that show the Martian sky as blue, and in fact, the sky should be blue. Typically the Martian sky is a lighter blue then earth’s at the zenith (overhead), but very yellowish near the horizon (where the dust is thickest.) At certain times or regions when or where the dust is very, very fine or very low in concentration the Martian sky appears blue all over, just like the earth’s.

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Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Finn, that was clear, logical, factual....
PN should find some way to dismiss it .

Gave him his chance Chrisisall

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