Browncoats... good guys or not?
POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:07
VIEWED: 33379
PAGE 11 of 12
Jasonzzz wrote:
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hmmm... That might be just us Homosapiens. Predators in the wild weed out their weak and sickly. Keeps the pack tight and fit. In fact, through competition, only the "fittest" get to pass on their genes. We don't seem to do that today as "predators".
We homosapiens are more like a virus, we use up all of the resources mindlessly in one area, we spread out and take up more area, we reproduce thoughtlessly without regard.
I agree that as a species we tend to use up our resources with little thought to preservation or effect of the usage. The loss of acres of rainforest everyday springs to mind, as does our reliance on fossil fuels.
I am not sure that we reproduce thoughtlessly, but it does seem that as a society, we do not think of the impact of our population growth on our enviroment.
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
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Quote:
Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:Quote:
Question for you:
When it is moral for a group of people to do something that is IMmoral for one person to do alone?
Still waiting for an answer to this one.
loadandmakeready
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What's morallity but the definition by people. Differing people will have a different definition. So, by default, it is always *moral* to do whatever the hell you please. It's just not moral by "my" standards.
Well, you're a people aren't you? I was asking for YOUR answer. Simply trying to understand where you're "coming from," It's a problem I'm having with some people on this board ... we seem to be speaking different languages.
*L*
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Quote:
Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
Homosapiens is a species of predator, and the only way a species of predator can survive, is by not preying upon itself.
Question for you:
When it is moral for a group of people to do something that is IMmoral for one person to do alone?
Actually Homo Sapiens is not, strictly speaking, a predator. But, even allowing for your assertion, you're still way off.
In fact it is common for predators of all species to kill off members of their own species in order to cut down on competition and to promote their own genetic line. Crocs, lions, chimps, bears, bugs, birds, the list is not endless but pretty damned long.
This is high school stuff, man. Really. Just flick on ANIMAL PLANET or watch a random NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC doc.
Humans do not survive by predation but by our ability to abstract complex forms from disperate inputs and to store that knowledge for future use.
That and these wicked cool thumbs.
Predation is but one of the tools we use and, mostly, we don't. Predation is inefficient. Farming, including the keeping and breeding of livestock, is efficient. That's why sport hunters are a bunch of sadistic throwbacks in our society but necessary and productive members of others.
Second point.
You have what seems to be a tenuous grasp on the concept of community.
Morals are abstract concepts which are not hardwired into humans but must be taught to the young of a given society. They are, invariably, stabilizers for the society into which the young have been born that the old have gleaned through trial and error.
Most current societies, for instance, do not cannibalize their defeated enemies as there are moral strictures- deeply indoctrinated from an early age– against it.
But SOME human societies did and do beleive that to consume the flesh of another person is to gain their knowledge and power. (Even Christian symbology includes the cannibalization of their Saviour.)
Morality, you see, is not fixed but a fairly movable feast. But, even in those societies, the act of cannibalism is only "moral" under highly ritualized group conditions. It's just murder when a guy does it alone.
In our society we are told that it's immoral to commit murder but soldiers and police officers get dispensation while abused women or oppressed minorities do not.
Shall I cite more?
The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax
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... as far as I know - scientists can't agree on just what humans are so I've no hope for you guys. The best thoery is that we are scavengers. Always have been, but even that is just a basis for instinctual behaviour models as applied to a species.
So please... all this bullplop about what homosapians 'do' is getting really tired.
Oh, and as far as I know; morals are just rules for the tedious. 
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Quote:
Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
Question for you:
When it is moral for a group of people to do something that is IMmoral for one person to do alone?
Quote:
Shall I cite more?
Not necessary ... just answer the question.
*L*
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
The best thoery is that we are scavengers. Always have been, but even that is just a basis for instinctual behaviour models as applied to a species.
Scavengers eat things that are already dead. A predator kills what it eats. This is true whether it hunts it's prey in the wild, or raises it on a ranch, or in a stockyard. That isn't theory, it's fact.
*L*
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^^^ oooh, that's a philosophy question one gets in, like, first year right? I think I know the answer but then I've never seen the inside of a college. However - I have seen the inside of a college student!
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Quote:
Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
The best thoery is that we are scavengers. Always have been, but even that is just a basis for instinctual behaviour models as applied to a species.
Scavengers eat things that are already dead. A predator kills what it eats. This is true whether it hunts it's prey in the wild, or raises it on a ranch, or in a stockyard. That isn't theory, it's fact.
Did Homo Habilis hunt game, merely scavenge meat, or do both? There is agreement that humans were scavengers at least part of the time. Which is why I'm getting tired hearing so many 'facts'. It's not like the scientists know either.
And using such pseudo-scientific bullplop to rationalize a more and more elusive point is just stupid. Not that loadanmakeready did that.
Anyho', have a great week-end!
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Quote:
Did Homo Habilis hunt game, merely scavenge meat, or do both? There is agreement that humans were scavengers at least part of the time. Which is why I'm getting tired hearing so many 'facts'. It's not like the scientists know either.
And using such pseudo-scientific bullplop to rationalize a more and more elusive point is just stupid. Not that loadanmakeready did that.
Anyho', have a great week-end!
Whether or not Homo Habilis could scavenge, I don't know. But modern man can't. We don't have the bacterium in our systems to kill the other bacterium which "spoils" meat. The things that other scavengers (crows, magpies, eagles, even dogs and cats -- which ARE scavenger/predators)can eat, will kill humans.
and you have a good weekend too!
*L*
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Hey, speak for yourself. If you mean "modern men" by them city-slickers - well alright. Plenty of people in the world still don't have refrigeration and have to eat meat that's been sitting around. Then again, city-slickers don't hunt or scavenge. Heck, we can't even start a fire even if it really meant saving our hide. Oh, what the heck am I talking about, most city folk stare at the light switch and think "ooooh, magic"...
Quote:
Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:Quote:
Did Homo Habilis hunt game, merely scavenge meat, or do both? There is agreement that humans were scavengers at least part of the time. Which is why I'm getting tired hearing so many 'facts'. It's not like the scientists know either.
And using such pseudo-scientific bullplop to rationalize a more and more elusive point is just stupid. Not that loadanmakeready did that.
Anyho', have a great week-end!
Whether or not Homo Habilis could scavenge, I don't know. But modern man can't. We don't have the bacterium in our systems to kill the other bacterium which "spoils" meat. The things that other scavengers (crows, magpies, eagles, even dogs and cats -- which ARE scavenger/predators)can eat, will kill humans.
and you have a good weekend too!
*L*
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