Angel 5.13 - Why We Fight (spoilers) a.k.a. 1943

POSTED BY: kasuo
UPDATED: Saturday, February 14, 2004 14:31
VIEWED: 7014
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STEVE580

Friday, February 13, 2004 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kanger33:
My favorite line?
Angel: "I'm not getting trapped at the bottom of the sea!"
Spike: "And I'm not getting experimented on by his government!"
HA! That had me howling!

Aw, I didn't catch that line! Funny as hell, though.

Yeah, I thought it was cool that the people that captured Angel were from the newly created Demon Research Initiative.

I did think Spike and Angel's relationship was a bit...off. I mean, when they parted earlier, they were enemies; were they not? Here, they were best of buds. Also - Spike: is he not, you know...evil? Thought he was supposed to be evil. Just wasn't getting an evil vibe from him last night.

Angel needs some better security at work. Although, it's not like Wolfram & Hart hasn't been very good at keeping out vampires, historically.

Overall, this episode was a 6. I've seen better, but I've seen worse.
-Steve

GOOG

Friday, February 13, 2004 3:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Okkay:
One question: Is this the last time that Spike sees Angel until the 2nd season of Buffy? Since Spike thinks Angel is evil when they meet again on Buffy, does that mean that at the end of this episode, Spike still thinks Angel is evil? Even though Angel doesn't kill the crew like he said he would?

Also, unless Lawson had some sort of remote control chair-pusher, that was a pretty pathetic threat to keep Angel from killing him. Once Angel saw what Lawson did to Fred/Wes/Gunn, he could have just staked him on the spot.

I thought about that too. I think the episode was careful enough not to give away to Spike that Angel wasn't evil.

And the chair-pusher, yeah, that was a stretch... even for this show. I would have been satisfied with a generic "bomb-attached-to-the-chest-activated-by-this-remote-detonator-in-my-hand" gag.

Best quote was SPIKE: You're still a dick. (TO ANGEL).

KURUKAMI

Friday, February 13, 2004 4:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
I did think Spike and Angel's relationship was a bit...off. I mean, when they parted earlier, they were enemies; were they not? Here, they were best of buds. Also - Spike: is he not, you know...evil? Thought he was supposed to be evil. Just wasn't getting an evil vibe from him last night.

How do you figure they were enemies when they parted? Check out this link:

http://www.buffyworld.com/angel/season2/transcripts/29_tran.shtml (and do a search for "slayer")

That was when Angelus split away from Darla, Dru, and Spike -- back in 1900, just after Spike had killed a Slayer. And though Darla discovered that Angelus didn't have the killing instinct any more, Spike certainly wasn't there to witness the confrontation. Thus, definitely not enemies... and though Spike may have had the opinion that Angel was a puffed-up blowhard at times, he still respected Angel and Angel's strength and ruthlessness. Finding him on board the German sub must have seemed a good thing -- an old friend and ally, to stand with him against the much more dubious Nastrolyev and Prince of Lies.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

KALATHENA

Friday, February 13, 2004 11:36 PM

Quote:
So, Spike KNEW about the plan to mess with vampire brains way back when, and yet when it happened to him, he didn't seem to jump to any conclusions. I mean, obviously this is because the writers hadn't written it yet, but there seems to be a flaw in the timeline.

Since when has Spike EVER been Mr. Brain-Trust? He's a dim bulb, that boy. They've played that up for a loooooong time now. I don't see any continuity error. He's just too busy living in the moment to be bothered with remembering anything important in the past.

My favorite part:

Angel: You're a Nazi?

Spike: Nah, I just ate one.

Nice nod to the origins of the Initiative.

An okay episode, but I really think they're pushing how much Angel could realistically have been doing in those 80 years, seeing as how he was supposedly *still* lurking the gutters and eating rats in 1995.

SERENITYVALLEY

Friday, February 13, 2004 11:45 PM

Quote:
I don't really see what you mean. What's the flaw?

Oh, it's not a very big flaw. It's just that when Spike did get the chip in his brain, he didn't seem to remember the Nazi thing about doing research on vampires brains. It's like he wasn't paying attention or something, which, he clearly was, given that ironic quote mentioned.

As far as Spike being evil, I think it's hi-larious that though he's evil, he's still quirky as ever. I know he's whiny, but I thought he'd be whining to Angel about wanting to eat one of the people, but he just whined about wanting to drive the boat! He's like a little kid!

http://www.simple-assault.com/Firefly.htm

KALATHENA

Saturday, February 14, 2004 12:43 AM

Oh yeah. Just like a little kid. That's why his character is so cool. Like I said, he's only interested in the moment that is happening RIGHT NOW. He's downright Buddhist, in that respect.

--Kala

SUCCATASH

Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:04 AM

I liked the way Angel bossed him around but still called him Captain, as Spike insisted he be called.

CB

Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:34 AM

The thing about Spike is, like he said in a recent episode, he was never 'in it' for the evil, he was only looking for some fun.

"There's glory, there's death, sod all else, right?"

________________________________________________

I threw up on your bed.

STEVE580

Saturday, February 14, 2004 9:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
I did think Spike and Angel's relationship was a bit...off. I mean, when they parted earlier, they were enemies; were they not? Here, they were best of buds. Also - Spike: is he not, you know...evil? Thought he was supposed to be evil. Just wasn't getting an evil vibe from him last night.

How do you figure they were enemies when they parted? Check out this link:

http://www.buffyworld.com/angel/season2/transcripts/29_tran.shtml (and do a search for "slayer")

That was when Angelus split away from Darla, Dru, and Spike -- back in 1900, just after Spike had killed a Slayer. And though Darla discovered that Angelus didn't have the killing instinct any more, Spike certainly wasn't there to witness the confrontation. Thus, definitely not enemies... and though Spike may have had the opinion that Angel was a puffed-up blowhard at times, he still respected Angel and Angel's strength and ruthlessness. Finding him on board the German sub must have seemed a good thing -- an old friend and ally, to stand with him against the much more dubious Nastrolyev and Prince of Lies.

Wasn't there something, though, about Angel sleeping with Drusilla, which made Spike angry before they departed? I'm not really up-to-date on the Spike/Angel relationship continuum, but this episode just seemed...wrong.
-Steve

DRAKON

Saturday, February 14, 2004 12:37 PM

There is something my wife picked up on. Note how Gunn blew his "line" in the board room when they were talking about Eve being gone. He couldn't remember a word, and then covered by saying that he's probably tired.

Wife thinks that the Senior Partners are withdrawing from Angel and company. And this was the first step, by letting Gunns mind return to normal. What effect would this have with Connor?

I think she may be onto something.

{Her other theory is that Eve is "Daddy's Girl" Bosses daughter. And while daddy has to punish her for screwing things up, he is actually quite proud of his little girl. And will help her down the road.)

NOTE: Not trying to disavow these ideas in case they don't pan out. But I do want to give credit where do if it do.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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