'Tolerance' on American Universities???

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How would you feel about a university instructor who said, in class, that the Koran was "that book about crazy Mohammud talking with 'god' in his magic cave"?

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It depends on the class. If it was a class on comparative religion, the content and point is fair game, altho the professor should moderate his language to be less offensive. We have only Nye's word that the professor "sneered" at the Bible, but given some of her whoppers I'm not sure I trust her subjective impressions.

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Or a department head said "You cannot use the Hindu Vedas in academic circles because they are regarded as books of myth"?

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They ARE books of myth. And if you're studying that myth then you have to use them... it's a question of HOW you use them. The assigmnent was to

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analyze an essay by Nicholas Maxwell... and the professor returned my paper with 33 hand written comments on it such as, "What is good?" "What is faith?"

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I expect that she quoted the Bible extensively as proof that God can be both all-powerful and all-loving, but that her analysis was deficient. She most likely substituted statements of faith for analysis. eg "It says here in chapter verse ..."

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How about a student suggesting a "Jewbaby killing party" during Passover?

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I'm not sure that's a direct comparison to having a "crucifixion party". There are real Jewish babies around to be killed but Jesus is nowhere to be found. One could be interpreted as an actual threat. The other could be intepreted as desecration of a mythic figure. I'm trying to find an equivalent...

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Is it different to you, one way or another, when it's not Christianity being demeaned?

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No. IMHO all religions are equal. However, like any other subject that deserves to be talked about, it deserves to be talked about in an honest, logical manner that is respectful of the person being addressed. ---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
No. IMHO all religions are equal. However, like any other subject that deserves to be talked about, it deserves to be talked about in an honest, logical manner that is respectful of the person being addressed.

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I'm not asking you to rationalize or explain the quotes of Butler College staff and students, or the modified versions I inserted above. I'm asking how they make you feel. Since you believe all religions are equal, you should feel the same amount of disgust, agreement, disinterest, or whatever about them all.

Even if you don't believe in someone's faith, there's no reason to insult it in their presence, even in an 'educational' setting. People who do might have tolerence issues themselves.



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Here's the test.

How would you feel about a university instructor who said, in class, that the Koran was "that book about crazy Mohammud talking with 'god' in his magic cave"? Or a department head said "You cannot use the Hindu Vedas in academic circles because they are regarded as books of myth"? How about a student suggesting a "Jewbaby killing party" during Passover?

Is it different to you, one way or another, when it's not Christianity being demeaned?



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Here's a test right back. one of the arguments against " under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, that got mostly ignored, was : what if you *H*A*D* to say " one nation , under Allah" ?
Now the shoe is on the other foot. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Turn the other cheek?

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Is it different to you, one way or another, when it's not Christianity being demeaned?

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Nope. Professors are human with all their own biases. Some opinions are offensive, some are simply illogical, but just like you do with opinions of everyone else, you listen and form your own conclusions. Students need to learn to separate opinion from fact.

Apparently, Nye never learned.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
--Ambrose Bierce (1842 - 1914), The Devil's Dictionary

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Here's a test right back. one of the arguments against " under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, that got mostly ignored, was : what if you *H*A*D* to say " one nation , under Allah" ?
Now the shoe is on the other foot. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Turn the other cheek?

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I'd just as soon they dropped 'under God' and 'in God we trust' and all the rest. I got no belief in deities of any kind and would like them out of politics alltogether.

p.s. But just because I don't believe in a deity, that doesn't mean I consider it proper to insult those who do.
"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
Nope. Professors are human with all their own biases. Some opinions are offensive, some are simply illogical, but just like you do with opinions of everyone else, you listen and form your own conclusions. Students need to learn to separate opinion from fact.

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I disagree. Professors should not be treated like everyone else, especially when they are lecturing. First of all, professors are being paid to teach and I think that a student has a right to assume, within reason, that he or she will be taught. If the student must assume that the professor is no more credible then any arbitrary person then the student cannot assume that he or she has been taught anything, and the university is essentially defrauding the student of his or her money. Just as important is that college professors are viewed as experts and the source of knowledge of our society. If society cannot expect that they can fulfill that status then they do not deserve to be viewed as experts or knowledgeable, they do not deserve to be paid, they do not deserve tenure or any special status in our society.

Any professor who claims that “Jesus was a homosexual” or the victims of 9/ll were “little Eichmanns” should be viewed with contempt, not only because such a statement are almost certainly a belligerent attacks, but also because in the absence of evidence, which doesn’t exist to my knowledge, they are patently untrue and not appropriate for people society has entrusted with passing on our knowledge.

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Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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How does this

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How would you feel about a university instructor who said, in class, that the Koran was "that book about crazy Mohammud talking with 'god' in his magic cave"? Or a department head said "You cannot use the Hindu Vedas in academic circles because they are regarded as books of myth"? How about a student suggesting a "Jewbaby killing party" during Passover?

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make me FEEL? It depends very much on context. I find the comment on the Koran phrased in an insulting way, and given the current climate I would be worried about repercussions in ways that I might not worry if someone insulted Hinduism. Just facts of life. My reponse to the comment on the Vedas would depend. If I were writing a paper about the Vedas but couldn't reference them, I'd feel frustrated and likely complain to the Dean. If I were writing an analysis of ethics and kept referring to the Vedas as "proof" I would prolly feel embarassed by my own lack of analytical acumen. If I heard a comment about Jewbaby killing OR a crucifixian party and I thought it was anything other than a tasteless joke, I'd be frightened and call the police. Otherwise, I'd treat both a tasteless joke- the baby-killing one being more tasteless because it could be a real threat.

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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Any professor who claims that “Jesus was a homosexual” or the victims of 9/ll were “little Eichmanns” should be viewed with contempt, not only because such a statement are almost certainly a belligerent attacks, but also because in the absence of evidence, which doesn’t exist to my knowledge, they are patently untrue and not appropriate for people society has entrusted with passing on our knowledge.

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But what if the professor came up with solid evidence to back up his/ her point?

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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Obviously, that would be something different.

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Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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