At the end of the BDM ...

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Originally posted by Johnboy:
Personally, I think it all depended on wether she could get in among them before they could get off a clean shot. You SAW the length of those gun barrels, right? In a melee those guns would have been useless, because they could not have swung those long barrels around quickly enough to draw a bead before head parted company from shoulder.

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And the chances of her getting in there fast enough are... how high? Unlike the Reavers or the people in the bar, these are highly trained soldiers who know exactly what River is capable of, more likely than they don't, considering they worked for the Operative, who is also fully aware of it.

I don't know why everyone is so determined to consider all Alliance soldiers incompetent fools. Highly trained soldiers. Why would they fail at shooting her?

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River gets my vote. She fancied her chances too, if you care to notice - she looked towards Mal, she was clearly asking wether he wanted her to take 'em out.

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Or maybe she was simply asking for some kind of reassurance because she just hacked up dozens of what used to be human beings and is facing a passel of well-armed, well-trained soldiers on top of it right now, and now she finally has some contact with the people she fought for in the first place? Or asking whether she should TRY attacking them, thus dooming them all to death in a hail of bullets? Everything is up to interpretation. There is nothing that's "clearly xyz", in that scene.

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She KNEW. Deep down, you all really know the answer too, don't you...

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Could you sound any more arrogant if you tried? Geez.

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of course, anything can be done in a work of fiction....however, I don't think Joss intended River to be Wonder Woman, that is for a different movie franchise.

River is not a superhero, she is an empath and a highly trained martial artist who can, essentially, "go berzerk" when triggered. I suspect a berzerk individual could continue fighting even after being mortally-wounded (such as has been reported about people under the influence of PCP, for instance).

She is NOT, however, going to stop bullets Matrix-style, nor hop out of their way Matrix-style.

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I'm pretty sure that they fanned out after enter the wall breach, at least making the semblance of a crescent.

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Originally posted by codemonkey:
I'm pretty sure that they fanned out after enter the wall breach, at least making the semblance of a crescent.

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That is true. I just rewatched the scene and it's a crescent that's smaller than a half-circle. They're not placed in a way that they would shoot each other if they tried shooting her.

Even I River could move fast enough to get close to them so that the soldier toward the edge of the crescent were blocked from shooting - and she would have to be pretty darn super-fast to do so before getting shot already - this would not prevent the ones still near the hole in the wall to just keep shooting at her.

Not to mention the armor they're wearing. Who's to say that's not bullet proof for situations just like these?

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If River had chosen to attack the soldiers while they were fanned out around her, I think she would have died. The soldiers seem pretty sharp to begin with (notice how most of them get a tighter grip on their triggers as soon as River shifts her hold on the axe? A group of cretians wouldn't have caught that subtle a movement). Presumably, they know about her superassasin capabilities--they don't underestimate her. And River, while a kick-ass fighter, can't dodge bullets.

But I think she might have gotton the better of the squadron if she had done something unexpected. Say she had dropped her weapons, put her hands up, and said "I surrender". The soldiers still keep most of their guns trained on her, but a couple of them radio the Operative.

The Operative now has a dilemma; kill the superassasin and make sure her secret doesn't get out (ooops), or capture her and return the Academy's prize pupil.

In the HOB/Jubal Early days, River was wanted alive. Now it beats me if River is wanted "Dead or Alive" or just "Dead".

And then there are a million other variables to consider, like how the Op. and the soldiers react to the fact that River's sane (whether they ever knew exactly how insane she was or not), and how the soldiers respond to a possible kill order ("We're supposed to kill somebody who's surrendering?") and whether any of the crew gets into the fray and does something distracting

If the soldiers tried to capture her, I think she would get out easily. First off, as soon as a soldier tries to handcuff her, he's a human shield. A bunch of soldiers try and handcuff her, they're close range and River eats them. Even in handcuffs, she's not exactly helpless (in fact, now that she's a genius psycic superassasin able to go beserk at will, I'd say even straitjacketed and locked up in a tomb she'd have a chance).

If the Operative gives the kill order, River still has a few options. First off, the radio conversation between the commander and the Operative would probably distract a couple of soldiers (at the very least, they wouldn't be 100% focused on River 'cause they're trying to hear what the Op is saying). The fact that she's surrendering might distract a few more, the fact that she's sane might distract a few more, and the fact that she looks about thirteen years old, is pretty, and is in a nice dress might distract a couple more of them. The small distractions might be all River needs to get in close range.

Furthermore, the soldiers might have a bit of hesitation about killing a surrendering, weaponless 90-pound girl. Again, the collective indecision might provide River with a window.

And then there's the crew to think about--they could start shooting something, or playing shadow puppets, or all sorts of stuff that's a mite distracting. I think River's best chance of getting out is having a couple of the crew start shooting at the soldiers. Crew shooting= enormous distraction + dead soldiers + River triumphant.

But all of those things would look really lame in the movie.

"And you can't stop me by gettin' all...bendy..."

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I say Joss and his crew could have made it happen and look easy! I'm thinking she would have "read" it before it started happening - she could have leaped over and into them confounding their fire or walked up the wall and used all kinds of things as weapons. Their might have been more Firefly crew casualties if they had to engage with the Alliance.

Then there's that "I can kill you with my brain" thing. She may have more psychic abilities than we've seen so far.

And they didn't want her dead - they wanted her alive - not really sure they really wanted Simon alive - but River, yes, they would have avoided killing her if at all possible. Maybe used "the words" or shot her up with a stun gun or something to try to knock her out.

I liked the way it ended, though.



"I can kill you with my brain."

Siri

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Of course she would have won. Wtch her eyes when she turns around to look at them. She's doing the math.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:



And the chances of her getting in there fast enough are... how high? Unlike the Reavers or the people in the bar, these are highly trained soldiers who know exactly what River is capable of, more likely than they don't, considering they worked for the Operative, who is also fully aware of it.

I don't know why everyone is so determined to consider all Alliance soldiers incompetent fools. Highly trained soldiers. Why would they fail at shooting her?

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She would have died, instantly. Slicing up a bunch of crazed, animal like Reavers with no training, and no expectation of what to face (nor with any regard, hence caution, for the numbers they might lose, btw) is not the same as dodging bullets by highly trained Alliance folk with kill-orders "at first twitch".

What was it that I so recently read on an avatar? "I can kill you with my cuteness." She probably could, lol. But swinging an axe that's not even lifted, it would take a sea of time to overcome the inertia alone to try and swing it again.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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