Browncoats... good guys or not?

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Originally posted by IrisAnne:
It occurs to me that Joss deals in archetypes. The Reavers are a symbol of our dark, primal selves. And maybe the Europeans who first came to North America projected the same archetype onto the inhabitants because they didn't understand them. "Savage" is just a manifestation of our own darkness and ignorance, and it's a powerful theme in storytelling. It taps right into our deepest fears about the world and about ourselves.

My blood ran cold when they first encountered the Reavers and Wash said, "Oh God oh God oh God..." What a scary and wonderful moment!

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Been reading any Joseph Conrad lately???

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Originally posted by Steve580:
I agree; the way the characters use dialogue from the Civil War era. Hence the correlation. I just don't see anything about the war itself that parallels with the US Civil War. Do you?
-Steve

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That is because there ain't that much of a parallel, except this. A while back, just a couple years, there was this huge war that destroyed most of the planets, and people. Even the ones it did not kill, the ones that survived, got messed up.

As part of that, a lot of folks headed outwards, just to get away from the bad memories and bad blood. In the 19th century, it was the American West. Now, its the border planets.

There is really not enough of information to see which side had policies that more or less accurately reflect the issues of the American Civil war. But to a large extent, it ain't relevant to what folks were doing on the other side of the Mississippi 5 to 10 years afterwards.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:


Firstly, the Alliance appears to be a rather heavy handed Authoritarian government. There seems to be no free trade -- hence the smuggling ... even smuggling food as was done in Serenity part two and Shindig (cattle.)

Secondly, like the Nazi's, they do experiments on captive humans. A "law man" was sent to recapture River, so the government is at least in favor of it if not directly involved.

Finally, the rules! Like accusing the "postal clerk" of committing a crime for receiving a package as in The Message. If there was any sort of fairness, the postal clerk would likely have said, "How was I supposed to know there was some sort of contraband in that crate? The package arrived ... I gave it to the addressee!" The fact that the postman DIDN'T react that way indicates to me a "system" of arbitrary rules, and no presumption of innocence. Not to mention the physical threat that the FED made to the postman ... who responded with fear rather than outrage.

This gives me an indication of what the Independents were fighting AGAINST. What they were fighting FOR is not clearly defined. The assumption is freedom from the Authoritarian Alliance. If that is true, then yes, the Browncoats were the good guys.

loadandmakeready

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Good post, however, I would like to offer a bit of counterpoint.

A man with a gun in your face is a more pressing problem than a congress critter back at the capitol. A man with a gun and a badge is even more problematic, whether what the man with the badge is doing is legal or not.

All the cops we've seen to date, with the exception of the sheriff in "Train Job" were detached from their regular commands, and operating independently. How much of their actions were sanctioned, we don't know.

Whether Dobson was there to bring River back, because it was his job, or if he were freelancing for the Blue Hand Crew, again, insufficient data. Heck if you think about it, we have no idea what Dobson was going to do after he caught River. Whether he was just going to pack her back to the lab, or take her somewhere else and use her as a material witness to bring down the BHC.

The problem with ruling the world, or the universe, is that there is a lot of stuff that can fall through the cracks. While you are worrying about trade quotas between Ariel and Shinon, someone is going around setting postal clerks on fire. That is a problem with any kind of centralized government that tries to rule too large a territory.

So what I am saying is that we really don't know if the Alliance is as bad as all that, or if because of travel distance, it has too many loose cannons wandering around, making it look badder than it is.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Originally posted by Drakon:

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Good post, however, I would like to offer a bit of counterpoint.

A man with a gun in your face is a more pressing problem than a congress critter back at the capitol. A man with a gun and a badge is even more problematic, whether what the man with the badge is doing is legal or not.

All the cops we've seen to date, with the exception of the sheriff in "Train Job" were detached from their regular commands, and operating independently. How much of their actions were sanctioned, we don't know.

Whether Dobson was there to bring River back, because it was his job, or if he were freelancing for the Blue Hand Crew, again, insufficient data. Heck if you think about it, we have no idea what Dobson was going to do after he caught River. Whether he was just going to pack her back to the lab, or take her somewhere else and use her as a material witness to bring down the BHC.

The problem with ruling the world, or the universe, is that there is a lot of stuff that can fall through the cracks. While you are worrying about trade quotas between Ariel and Shinon, someone is going around setting postal clerks on fire. That is a problem with any kind of centralized government that tries to rule too large a territory.

So what I am saying is that we really don't know if the Alliance is as bad as all that, or if because of travel distance, it has too many loose cannons wandering around, making it look badder than it is.

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Good points.

Compare the fringes where the Firefly story takes place to America in the late 1860s up to the turn of the 20th century. The government was in Washington DC and people were living on the frontier, thousands of miles away. In New York City or Boston, people did not walk around wearing Colts or carrying Winchesters, why, because the law was right there in the city and government was established.

It is a different story in the Old West. Men wore guns to protect themselves, and shoot outs over disagreements were not uncommon. Many towns had a sheriff, but some did not. US Marshalls generally covered a huge territory and would have to be sent for by the town or sheriff in instances of major crimes.

Corruption was present, but most of the neglect came from the distance from an established government. It is easy, as Darkon said, for things to fall through the cracks when you had to rely on the Pony Express or stagecoach to dlvr mail and no federal lawman is anywhere nearby.

Guess this is the case in Firefly. Out on the frontier where there are plenty of people and little law, it would be easy for a lawman standing alone to become corrupt or get a bit heavy handed w/ folk.

Still I think the underlying tones are there in the 'verse suggesting corruption and a Big Brother style of government. Remember how Simon's father warns that the Alliance will ruin his career if he continues trying to free River, and how they would destroy the reputation and career of his family. The father was so scared, or conditioned to obey, or both, that he disowned his son to distance himself from any fall out. That is on a core planet. Doesn't sound much like a government I would want to live under.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Originally posted by Drakon:


Good post, however, I would like to offer a bit of counterpoint.

A man with a gun in your face is a more pressing problem than a congress critter back at the capitol. A man with a gun and a badge is even more problematic, whether what the man with the badge is doing is legal or not.

All the cops we've seen to date, with the exception of the sheriff in "Train Job" were detached from their regular commands, and operating independently. How much of their actions were sanctioned, we don't know.

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Not so sure I buy that argument. Just because the low level cops, even the guys running the Alliance details in BUSHWACKED and ARIEL, don't know the details or even any reall info, doesn't mean that the BLUE SUN honchos and the heads of the ALLIANCE are not working hand in glove.

The CIA and FBI stepped on each other's toes routinely until they were legislated out of each other's back yards. BOTH groups have better intel and superceding powers over local law enforcement. This is the future, remember. Things have clearly gotten worse on that score.



The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax

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