Look, I know it's been overdone - but abortion - yay or nay?
POSTED BY: FLF
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 13:13
VIEWED: 24147
PAGE 15 of 26
I really don't want to get into this argument, so I'm just going to lay it out nice and simple:
Killing, ending a life, by your own choice, of someone else, is wrong. It's wrong if you take a bag of kittens and hang it in a tree and shoot it full of holes.
This position:
Quote:
If you think it's wrong, don't have one.
Is not just pro-abortion, it's actually pro-murder, because by the same logical, it could be used against the anti-murder argument:
"Thou shalt not kill"
as in a response like:
"Oh yeah? Well, if you disapprove of killing, don't kill people, but the rest of us are going to go on killing, whether that's okay with you or not"
The "right to choose" argument is equally bad:
it's your right to choose whether or not to go into mcdonalds and kill 16 people with an AK47. We're not saying you have to, but that option should be open to you.
No. It shouldn't. Maybe it should be open to a doctor, who sometimes has to make the choice of who lives and who dies in situations where there is limited blood, or siamese twins being separated, or one organ donor and two needy recipients, difficult choices. But disturbing the natural order should not be our whim.
BTW, I'm just ranting, so I'm not going to get into it, but my position is faith based, so I don't think it's going to make for much of a political debate. for the record, my position of anti-death penalty is also faith based. I oppose the death penalty for saddam hussein, and for osama bin laden, and just as i oppose it for george w bush and charles manson.
If you argue the point with me I'm liable to tell you to stop eating fish.
:)
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Quote:
Abortions will happen regardless. You can be pro choice or pro backstreet abortion that leaves most women that have them sterile or dead or abandoning the child after birth, because those are the real choices.
Citizen,
This is the best possible argument for your side, and congrats on making it. I think there are ways to settle this one, but it's about the only solid argument I've heard from the pro-choicers.
Quote:
I cut my finger earlier, how many miniture humans died there I wonder? A collection of Cells isn't a human, it has potential perhaps, but still not a Human.
This is one of the many losing arguments. The point is, without human medical intervention, a full human will come of a pregnancy, most likely, and will not come for your cut finger. There are no complete clonable cells from your blood, but that's aside from the point. Abortion is screwing with mother nature. It's a very Saturny position.
But I'm not going to have an argument on abortion, just wanted to point out the strong and weak argument here.
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Finn,
Sorry about the earlier troll post. Fight the good fight. Logic dictates a solution here, but the left arguments don't hold up. I sometimes wonder if there's not a more insidious goal in the allowing fo blanket abortions, whether that goal is profit or depopulation, but in any event, it's wrong to kill, with the possible exclusion of self defense. Allowing "killing for convenience" in any walk of life will lead to disaster.
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Hey Rue, Signy, FMF, Soup,
Thanks for your concern. I am touched. Browncoats really are the best.
Nothing anyone can do. I just slid on a slippery hill into another car. Killed my favorite car. Had to find and buy another (used) vehicle, take it to the shop, etc. Ah, what a pain. Fortunately we weren't driving fast and no one was hurt, except for an injury on my tongue. I somehow bit it something fierce upon impact and needed 8 stitches--yeah, on the tongue. Had to blend and drink all my food through a straw for a week and a half. Not fun. BTW, never blend a hot dog and bun. Ewww.
My kids are all right. I think my son is out of the woods now, healthwise. Thanks for asking.
I do still have a lot going on here, so I probably won't be posting as much as before. But I do miss you guys and will pop in from time to time.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky 
------------------
"Little defeat big, when little is smart.
First with the head, then with the heart." -- The Power of One (movie)
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Quote:This is one of the many losing arguments. The point is without putting on a condom a baby would have resulted from sex. Contraception is murder.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
This is one of the many losing arguments. The point is, without human medical intervention, a full human will come of a pregnancy, most likely, and will not come for your cut finger. There are no complete clonable cells from your blood, but that's aside from the point. Abortion is screwing with mother nature. It's a very Saturny position.
Just wanted to point out the weak arguments
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
This is one of the many losing arguments. The point is without putting on a condom a baby would have resulted from sex. Contraception is murder.
Just wanted to point out the weak arguments
To quote the creepy: Why so glib?
Why is it so hard to accept that there is a difference between the sperm, egg and the result of an actual successful fertilization between sperm and egg?
Pregnancy is not the inevitable result of sex. It's a probable one, but not guaranteed. Fetilization occurs if a number of factors combine.
Otherwise it's just potential. Sperm stays sperm and egg stays egg and both rot away without outside interference. As nature intended. No murder about it.
But when those conditions are met and by chance egg and sperm do meet, you have a fertilized egg, zygote, embryo, fetus, baby. And without outside interference that one doesn't rot. It grows. That's also as nature intended.
How is there not a difference? How?
It's the right of the woman to interfere. Period. But interference is what it takes, and I don't understand what is supposed to be so damaging about aknowledging it as something significant, something that ends the life of a human being at an almost ridiculously early stage?
Be it just a blob of cells - which would be great, in terms of dealing with that act - but it's a blob of cells that by high probability is just one stage in a direct line from zero to person.
Unlike a scrape of epidermis or a bunch of sperm or eggs.
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REGARDING:
"As far as I'm concerned it's a woman's choice - and no-one has the right to take that away from her.
Any other opinions here? Can anyone suggest how I can convince my friend or shall I just give up?"
FLF;
Ask Malachi if he agrees with you about the Woman's Choice
http://supportbordercontrols.blogspot.com/2006/11/abortion-is-satonic-
totally-evil.html#links
cl
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REGARDING:
"As far as I'm concerned it's a woman's choice - and no-one has the right to take that away from her.
Any other opinions here? Can anyone suggest how I can convince my friend or shall I just give up?"
FLF;
Ask Malachi if he agrees with you about the Woman's Choice
http://supportbordercontrols.blogspot.com/2006/11/abortion-is-satonic-
totally-evil.html#links
CL
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Quote:As Rue has already shown even after fertilisation and barring any other intervention the fertilised egg may not produce a viable pregnancy. And as I've already said Human pregnancy is actually the most dangerous of the entire animal kingdom, and less likely to produce a living offspring, what I mean is that an egg is only a potential human, but so is an Embryo. The biggest linchpin in the Argument so far has been "it could be Human therefore it is Human", how is saying "an egg could be Human therefore it is Human" any different? If Finn can insinuate that someone is a baby killer because they abort some cells that may be a Human (which apparently means they are a Human) how is saying prevention of fertilisation is murder any different?
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
To quote the creepy: Why so glib?
Why is it so hard to accept that there is a difference between the sperm, egg and the result of an actual successful fertilization between sperm and egg?
Pregnancy is not the inevitable result of sex. It's a probable one, but not guaranteed. Fetilization occurs if a number of factors combine.
Otherwise it's just potential. Sperm stays sperm and egg stays egg and both rot away without outside interference. As nature intended. No murder about it.
But when those conditions are met and by chance egg and sperm do meet, you have a fertilized egg, zygote, embryo, fetus, baby. And without outside interference that one doesn't rot. It grows. That's also as nature intended.
How is there not a difference? How?
It's the right of the woman to interfere. Period. But interference is what it takes, and I don't understand what is supposed to be so damaging about aknowledging it as something significant, something that ends the life of a human being at an almost ridiculously early stage?
Be it just a blob of cells - which would be great, in terms of dealing with that act - but it's a blob of cells that by high probability is just one stage in a direct line from zero to person.
Unlike a scrape of epidermis or a bunch of sperm or eggs.
Lets assume that we know 100% that the Embryo will develop into a child, so we say aborting it is murder.
Lets also assume that we know, for certain that during sex these Sperm will Fertilise that egg and will produce an embryo that will produce a child. Why can't I say that preventing fertilisation is also murder based on the same reasoning?
How is a Condom natural? How? What about the morning after pill? That is to all intents and purposes an abortion that can be used within three days. How's that not murder if abortion is?
But on to the last part, no one has demonstrated that an Embryo IS Human, they've shown that it may potentially possibly be Human one day, but no one has made any case whatsoever that it IS. To go with an analogy, is Rubber bought by Dunlop a tyre? That's why I don't recognise a few cells as a distinct Human being, because they aren't, they maybe later on, but that doesn't mean they ARE, not as Finn would have us believe, because I'm a Baby murderer who wants to kill babies with a clean conscience.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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