Browncoats... good guys or not?

POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:07
VIEWED: 33379
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JASONZZZ

Sunday, February 8, 2004 7:18 PM

Hell, just look at the RIAA and their rent-a-cops 'ala raid on Kazaa. RIAA = "Blue Sun" albeit they don't really sell anything and much more laughably moronic

http://p2pnet.net/story/715

They even manage to dress up their own "fake" police units in full paramilitary swatteam type garbs with the initials "RIAA" emblazoned on their backs. How's that for ballsy?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/34835.html

And BTW, I think Fiorina forgot who buys computers.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/34804.html

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STEVE580

Monday, February 9, 2004 5:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EarlVanDorn:
Given that the "good guys" are wearing the brown, the whole nazi thing never ocurred to me til I read it here. What the war made me think of was the war between the states.
We know that Capn Mal fought for the underdog losing side. They fought against a well supplied force fighting for a central (federal) government. As the WBTS wore on, the South ran out of gray dye, so they used the oil of butternut trees to color uniforms, leaving them various shades of dark tan. Finally, in what I recollect was "he Train Job", they're gettng thrown out of a saloon, then get backed up against the cliff. Then this guy tells Mal something like
"You rebels lost"
And Mal says
"Yeah but we shall rise again"
Then the ship comes up and they get away. I always thought it was an american civil war allegory.

I've watched that little scene dozens of times - because I love it - and it's

"I'm thinkin' someone outta put you down, Dog. Whatda you think?"

"I'm thinkin' we'll wise again."

No Civil War comparisions. The only relation the Independents have to the Confederacy is that they wanted to be free from the oppresive government (as in most civil wars), they had fewer resources (as in most civil wars), and they lost. That's all. No other relation to the American civil war in particular, it's just what we think of, because we're American (many of us).

The other coincidence is the western aspect, of course.
-Steve

DTT

Monday, February 9, 2004 6:34 AM

Steve, I have to respectfully disagree. In a "space western" produced in America where the main character is a sergeant from the defeated side in a civil war, the American Civil War references CANNOT be denied. The quote, "I'm thinkin' maybe we'll rise again," is ESPECIALLY significant. As a Southerner, I've heard way too many "the South shall rise again" references to agree with what you're saying. Even to this day, there are those in the South who adhere to the idea that one day the southern states will successfully band together and break away from the US. In fact, every insult hurled at Mal in that scene has been used against Southerners with regularity.

"I just did that because it was funny."

AJ

Monday, February 9, 2004 10:21 AM

Being from the UK, I'm not too up on US history, so my first watching of Firefly didn't really bring up too many parallels with the US civil war. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are, but to me it feels a lot more like British Imperialism - The core worlds bringing 'civilization' to the outer world: "be ruled by us, and we'll give you medicine, aqueducts, etc.... Oh, and by the way, this isn't a request." Hmm, okay, a bit like Roman Imperialism as well, or maybe just imperialism (?)

I suppose, being colony-based, it could be more like American Independence, just with the 'other' side winning, except that in Firefly, I'm assuming the colonies were initially independent, and were then 'encouraged' to join (although the whole 'voting' thing implies some kind of pseudo-democracy somewhere...).

TRAVELINGTHEBLACK

Monday, February 9, 2004 11:22 AM

I'm thinking, from what was said in Bushwacked about the money going to Mal's defence, that the Alliance is a democracy, but a heavily centralized, corperate democracy. Imagine Bush's "War for Peace and Democracy" against the Middle East, but applied to sovergin colonies instead.

The Alliance isn't evil-like, it just depends on the point of view. Inara supported the War most likely because she thought it was doing some good, while Mal, who lived on a farm on Shadow, saw the incoming Alliance forces as invaders.

It's like putting yourself in the shoes of an Iraqi Insurgent (not the suicide terrorists). They might of had it bad under Saddam... but they sure as hell don't want some other country to tell them what do to, how to govern themselves, etc.

Mercy is the mark of a great man... *stab*

AJ

Monday, February 9, 2004 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TravelingTheBlack:
It's like putting yourself in the shoes of an Iraqi Insurgent (not the suicide terrorists). They might of had it bad under Saddam... but they sure as hell don't want some other country to tell them what do to, how to govern themselves, etc.

Again, I think the British Empire is a good comparison. The British thinking they're bringing civilisation (and democracy) to India (whilst gaining their own 'fringe' benefits, of course), but India being quite happy before they turned up, and somewhat unimpressed by the strong-arm arrogance of it all.

STEVE580

Monday, February 9, 2004 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtt:
Steve, I have to respectfully disagree. In a "space western" produced in America where the main character is a sergeant from the defeated side in a civil war, the American Civil War references CANNOT be denied. The quote, "I'm thinkin' maybe we'll rise again," is ESPECIALLY significant. As a Southerner, I've heard way too many "the South shall rise again" references to agree with what you're saying. Even to this day, there are those in the South who adhere to the idea that one day the southern states will successfully band together and break away from the US. In fact, every insult hurled at Mal in that scene has been used against Southerners with regularity.

I agree; the way the characters use dialogue from the Civil War era. Hence the correlation. I just don't see anything about the war itself that parallels with the US Civil War. Do you?
-Steve

LOADANDMAKEREADY

Monday, February 9, 2004 1:35 PM

Firstly, the Alliance appears to be a rather heavy handed Authoritarian government. There seems to be no free trade -- hence the smuggling ... even smuggling food as was done in Serenity part two and Shindig (cattle.)

Secondly, like the Nazi's, they do experiments on captive humans. A "law man" was sent to recapture River, so the government is at least in favor of it if not directly involved.

Finally, the rules! Like accusing the "postal clerk" of committing a crime for receiving a package as in The Message. If there was any sort of fairness, the postal clerk would likely have said, "How was I supposed to know there was some sort of contraband in that crate? The package arrived ... I gave it to the addressee!" The fact that the postman DIDN'T react that way indicates to me a "system" of arbitrary rules, and no presumption of innocence. Not to mention the physical threat that the FED made to the postman ... who responded with fear rather than outrage.

This gives me an indication of what the Independents were fighting AGAINST. What they were fighting FOR is not clearly defined. The assumption is freedom from the Authoritarian Alliance. If that is true, then yes, the Browncoats were the good guys.

loadandmakeready

LOADANDMAKEREADY

Monday, February 9, 2004 2:00 PM

Quote:

At absolute worst the Browncoats could be described as Anarchists (vs the Order represented by The Alliance) but they bear a closer resemblance to the Revolutionaries of the Colonial U.S. than they do to the Confederate rebels of the following century.

Browncoats = Good
Alliance = Bad.

Nothing wrong with being an Anarchist -- depending upon what kind of Anarchist of course.

Slightly off topic: What difference was there between the Colonists who seceeded from the British Empire, and the Confederates who tried to seceed from the United States? I'm really curious. Because as I see it, the Federal Government was doing exactly the same thing to the Southern States as Britain was doing to the Colonies.

loadandmakeready

BROWNCOAT1

Monday, February 9, 2004 2:37 PM

LoadAndMakeReady wrote:

Quote:
Slightly off topic: What difference was there between the Colonists who seceeded from the British Empire, and the Confederates who tried to seceed from the United States? I'm really curious. Because as I see, it the Federal Government was doing exactly the same thing to the Southern States as Britain was doing to the Colonies.

Depends on who you ask really. Ask most people, especially those from the North, they will say there is no comparison. They will cite abolishing slavery as the reason for their invasion of the South. Ask someone from the South, they will tell you they were fighting for states rights, independence, and to protect their homes from what they saw as an invading army. Matter of perception, what they were taught, and what they believe.

As far as the comparisons of the Alliance, I have always seen them as a sort of central, expansionist government gone amok. They remind me somewhat of an occupying army when you see soldiers on the street in episodes. They watch everyone, seem to be suspicious of everyone, and the display of military arms seems meant to intimidate the populace into compliance.

I feel the Alliance is meant to portray the all powerful, corrupt government that many people fear could happen in our day and time. The way the Alliance is shown as a military/peace keeping force and their heavy handed tactics in enforcing the will of the government is what the forefathers of our country feared and why they were anti-Federalists. The original colonies broke away from England because they saw that an all powerful, central government did not work for the people, but rather exploited them.

The Browncoats are meant to represent the common men and women who lived out in the remote areas of Alliance controlled space. The people of these remote colonies were neglected by the Alliance, left without food, technology, support, or medicines. Feeling abandoned by the government, they decided they wanted freedom instead of paying taxes and swearing allegiance to a government that did not assist them.

The comparisons to the Civil War are there, but I ask if the 'verse Joss created for Firefly could not as easily apply to the American Revolution. Could this not be a version of what might have been if the Colonials had not won their independence?

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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