Browncoats... good guys or not?

POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:07
VIEWED: 33379
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ZERN

Saturday, February 7, 2004 8:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
How many other browncoats do you even see in the show? There's Zoe, of course. And maybe another smuggler ( forget his name ) from 'Trash'. Hell, even here in the South, (Georgia) there are all sorts of symbols and sentiments for the Confederacy. You'd think there would be some similar affinity to the Independents, even if they were on the losing side. Oh well

To address your question, I'm not sure there is enough evidence, but my GUESSS is that the Independents were just a collection of folks who wanted to remain free and have more self determination.

I agree with this POV on the Browncoats. They were, in my opinion, similar to the rebels of the Civil War.

Intelligence is rewarded through enginuity.

EARLVANDORN

Saturday, February 7, 2004 8:30 AM

Given that the "good guys" are wearing the brown, the whole nazi thing never ocurred to me til I read it here. What the war made me think of was the war between the states.
We know that Capn Mal fought for the underdog losing side. They fought against a well supplied force fighting for a central (federal) government. As the WBTS wore on, the South ran out of gray dye, so they used the oil of butternut trees to color uniforms, leaving them various shades of dark tan. Finally, in what I recollect was "he Train Job", they're gettng thrown out of a saloon, then get backed up against the cliff. Then this guy tells Mal something like
"You rebels lost"
And Mal says
"Yeah but we shall rise again"
Then the ship comes up and they get away. I always thought it was an american civil war allegory.

Earl

LTNOWIS

Saturday, February 7, 2004 8:48 AM

Quote:
Ah. Now see, the thing is, the Nazis may have been stiff in their formations (they certainly took pride in being well-ordered) but 'uncaring' isn't a term I'd use. They cared quite a bit.

I gotta agree with you here. I guess uncaring was the wrong word. But the bottom line is that when people think of uniformed, organized, formal tyrants, they automatically think of Nazis, who are by far the most infamous example of such a group.

AERRIN

Saturday, February 7, 2004 6:08 PM

Quote:
Given that the "good guys" are wearing the brown, the whole nazi thing never ocurred to me til I read it here. What the war made me think of was the war between the states.

I agree, though I'd twist it just a tad - what the Alliance/Rebel dynamic makes me think of is what it would be like if there were an American civil war /now/. The difference between then and now is key to me for several reasons.

- The huge, sprawling empire. I think this, right here, is the key to the 'bad' Alliance. I think that the things we see about them that we don't like are related not to an inherent evilness (which is another reason I don't think Nazi applies at all), but to problems arising from their superstructure.

- The way the little people slip through the cracks - intentionally or unintentionally. Those people lost their medicine? Sorry, we've got bigger fish (and to be honest, probably legitimate ones) to fry. That sentiment could come straight from the US right now, if you take out the floating train and the spaceships.

- The influence of the cooperate on the government. We barely see this, but from what's hinted.. holy cow.

So in my mind, I'm imagining a group of citizens who see this type of government setting up to 'bring civilization' to outlying planets (ring a bell much?) and they decide they don't want it. They want to rule themselves. And so they fight, and they lose.

I think the good guy/bad guy dynamic is much more complicated than that - we all know Joss is a fan of shades of gray. I think there are some aspects of the Alliance that are evil (the program that took River). I think /most/ of the Alliance are simply guys trying to do their job, and a lot of times it's hard, because it's so big, there's so much to do, and I'd imagine resources are stretched quite thin. Most of them probably believe that they're bringing civilization, along with law and order and medicine and food and education, to those backwater planets.

And to some extent, they're right. Let's face it - Mal and his crew are criminals. When they're stopped by an Alliance ship, it's usually with a reason. When the Alliance refuses to help them - well. Again. Criminals.

I definately think Joss wants us to have doubts about the white hats/black hats - heck. Inara supported unification. We never really know what half the crew thinks about it. We only know that they want to avoid the Alliance, because they don't want to get caught. So.. yeah. Complicated.

Also still sticking with my 'not Nazis, except they wear uniforms.'

STATIC

Saturday, February 7, 2004 7:19 PM

You know. . .I've only skimmed through these replies, so if I repeat what others have said, pardon me.

I think it's not as simple as 'good-guy/bad-guy' . . .but the nearest we can gather from the episodes is that the Alliance is not an evil ORGANIZATION, just a government. . .and we all KNOW what Mal says a government it. The only thing I think we can truly say establishes the whole "Alliance good/Independants bad" is the notion that the Alliance wanted one single governmental body for the entire system, whereas the Independants wanted each planet to be 'separate, yet equal', with each planet having their own setup.

Now. . .this here is the DIRECT correlation to the American Civil War, The War Between The States, as it is called in some southern states, "The War of Northern Agression", and as it is called in the more 'gen-teel' circles, "The Great Unpleasantness" (Hey, my family was in Ireland the whole time. Don't ask MY opinion!).

However, I think the 'uniform' issue might be ALOT simpler than we're thinking. Unless Joss says something to the contrary in commentary, I think the use of 'Nazi' helmets might be alot simpler. . .liiiiiiiiiiiike. . .FOX had a whole bunch of them lying around the Costume warehouse. . .add some futuristic patches and weapons, and voila! The Independants were wearing the old-fashioned Army 'steel pot' helmets, used from WW2 all the way up to Vietnam. Once again, perhaps it was a matter of surplus availability. Anyone notice that the NEW Alliance soldier uniforms are the same as the ones worn in "Starship Troopers"?

Just a thought. Maybe I'm way off.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

SOUTHERNMERC

Saturday, February 7, 2004 7:51 PM

One thing that you can take away from the attitudes of the Alliance personnel on the show is that they have very little regard for "Independants" and make a kneejerk assumption that Browncoats must be up to no good. This CAN be viewed by some as evidence of totalitarianism, Nazi like behavior and whatnot, but I submit the following for your inspection.

The Browncoats, feeling the sting of loss, have rejected "civilized" behavior in many circles and tend to act in a very criminal manner. As was seen in the script for "Dead or Alive," a Browncoat WAS involved in a terrorist act. He surely couldn't be the only one to commit such an act, especially against Alliance holdings.

Also, the manner displayed toward Serenity's crew in several episodes is consistant with how police treat criminals. For example, in "Bushwhacked" the commander of the Alliance cruiser acted in a way that could be construed as having already decided the guilt of the crew. Yet, they WERE found just leaving a derelict transport that was scheduled to drop off 16 families 2 weeks prior to the encounter. He could assume, safely and correctly, when he found the cargo aboard Serenity that Mal & Co. had stolen it from the ship. This does not predispose someone in a position of authority to liking said person.

I don't believe the Alliance is as bad as could be believed from first viewing the organization. I DO believe it is a VAST beauracracy, uncaring about individuals yet concerned about the general welfare of its citizens. They clearly have some questionable policies (ex. in "Safe" Simon was caught in a "blackout zone," supposedly a forbidden part of town and thus a restriction of movement placed upon its citizens), yet the Alliance undoubtably has done alot for its people. Even the border worlds receive aid (ex. the medicine in "The Train Job"), and thus derrive some benefit from their inclusion in the Alliance. And remember, it has been less than 6 years since Unification, and as noted, beauracracies take time to bring change about.

Now, having said that...

I would NEVER condone the actions the Alliance took regarding the Independant worlds. Such hostile action is INEXCUSABLE. Forcibly including them is a BIG violation of human rights, and I woulda stood next to Mal and gunned down as many Feds as possible. This one action taints all the positive things the Alliance has done. But as I have implied, things are rarely cut and dried.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

GUNRUNNER

Saturday, February 7, 2004 8:51 PM

I don't know if its been mentioned but The Confederacy (who has been compared to the Browncoats) had gray uniforms like the Alliance. Also the Sheriff in The Train Job had a gray uniform and he wasn't bad.

Also in bushwhacked the Alliance Captain mentioned that he hadn’t seen such brutality (referring to the people hanging from the ceiling) since the war. Which in my mind meant he saw some bad things done by the Browncoats. So some probably weren’t very nice.

VETERAN

Saturday, February 7, 2004 9:35 PM

As much as I'd want to be on the right side of a conflict (whatever right really is)I think, for most people, what side you're on in a war is often predetermined by where you live. There are more than a few exceptions like American Tories or the Foreign Volunteers during the Spanish Civil War. But for the average soldier it's where he or she is from.

If I lived out on the rim I'd have joined the Browncoats; mostly because there is a direct emotional involvement about being told what to do my a remote government. Would I have the sentiment if I lived on a core planet like Ariel? Not so much.

I think Joss wants how we view the Alliance to be complicated. The Alliance has the capacity to be good and evil. It depends on who's in charge. In Serenity the Captain of the Alliance Cruiser decides to go save a distressed ship rather than chase an illegal salvage operation. Nothing evil about that. The Bluehands people, definintely evil.

***************

Static,

I never heard the Civil War referred to as the "Great Unpleasantness" before, very diplomatic.

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Saturday, February 7, 2004 9:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
Anyone notice that the NEW Alliance soldier uniforms are the same as the ones worn in "Starship Troopers"?
Just a thought. Maybe I'm way off.

Spot on in fact - they admit they rented a job lot from stores ;) Seem to recall Farscape did that with some Star Wars props(and the Mantis Lady in S1 Buffy was the bug from B5).

"I threw up on your bed"

REDJACK

Sunday, February 8, 2004 6:52 PM

The Browncoats in FIREFLY are the Good Guys.

The Alliance has clearly been shown to be unconcerned with the welfare of citizens from not caring about the living conditions of its people (THE TRAIN JOB, JAYNESTOWN, SAFE, HEART OF GOLD, SHINDIG, THE MESSAGE), to condoning the the practice of slavery (SHINDIG) not to mention the abduction and torture of River Tan.

It's hinted that the Alliance ability and desire to gather information on its citizens is fantastically more invasive than anything we have today.

The Alliance, according to Whedon himself, is the result of the merging of two superpowers–CHINA and the US– with global corporations. That alone tells you everything you need to know about the Alliance. Two of these three have a centuries long history of evil bevahiour and trampling on human rights. Even the U.S. hands are fairly dirty on that score. Any such merger would only bring out the worst in all parties.

By contrast the Independants (Browncoats) seem only to have one thing in common– the wish to live according to the rules each human colony sets for itself (SERENITY, OUR MRS. REYNOLDS, even SAFE) without regard to the dictates of the central government.

At absolute worst the Browncoats could be described as Anarchists (vs the Order represented by The Alliance) but they bear a closer resemblance to the Revolutionaries of the Colonial U.S. than they do to the Confederate rebels of the following century.

Browncoats = Good
Alliance = Bad.

The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax

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