Rush Limbaugh, Michael J. Fox and Parkinson's Disease
POSTED BY: misbehaven
UPDATED: Saturday, November 18, 2006 01:39
VIEWED: 26984
PAGE 15 of 19
Razza- I didn't attack you personally. I just "questioned" your uncle's existance and the nature of his "disease". Does that feel like an attack? It was a lesson- a very gentle one. It lasted for all of one post. About as many sentences involved in my post as sentences in Rush's partial transcripts. Amazing how they stick in the mind, isn't it?
Otherwise I stuck to the issue. Re-read my posts carefully. I didn't attack you anywhere else and I think you'll have a VERY hard time showing that I did. If you think I did, prove it. Quote me.
But I'm sticking to my opnion and will keep repeating it. You keep saying that Rush has a right to "question" MJ Fox's symptoms. I've read several partial transcripts of what Rush said and heard several partial audios. As SOUP said, there was no "question" involved. Rush stated AS FACT that MJ Fox was faking or exaggerating his disease. Even embedded in a larger discussion about embryonic stem cell research and other issues, Rush had no business slandering MJ Fox.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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You didn't attack or insult me? I thought I'm the one who lies, is blinded by my ideology, and speaks out of both sides of my mouth.
But for the last time, if it makes you happy to insult or attack me and then believe that you didn't, it's no skin off my nose.
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"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."
---Napoleon Bonaparte
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Quote:Soup, you are the voice of reason here, and a better man than I at the moment.
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
What I really want to say, often, is, "How the fuck can you support a radical dismantling of many of the things that make this country great?" The main reason I don't go apocalyptic is that I don't see any benefit to engaging in that in this venue.
When the neo-nazis are out of office, and we begin to swing back to the belief that individual human rights matter, and that we don't need to sink down to Bin-Laden's level to defeat his intentions in a stand-up fight, I hope to re-gain the ability to debate the lost boys.
But at present, those that want to live in Hero and AURaptor's world of the 'I, personally, feel fine right now, so everything's okay' variety can kiss the barrel of my drawn weapon (virtually speaking, of course).
Having gills installed to enjoy waterboarding more Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soupcatcher:
This probably won't come as too much of a shock to you, Razza, but I don't think there's an equivalence here. Come back to me when SignyM or Rue or Chrisisall has an audience of 10 million who bob their heads in unison over every utterance. Come back to me when they are an integral part of a political party. In other words, come back to me when they're in charge of anything.
Never mistake civil discourse for lack of anger. I choose to not attack individuals. That's a style of online discourse that I feel most comfortable with. But don't ever think that I'm not pissed off.
There's anger that's been building in me for four years. It started when this administration used the support of a united country as cover to begin dismantling the Consitution. It grew when anyone who disagreed with this administration was labeled as a traitor. My anger was fed when more than a million Americans, myself included, took to the streets in early 2003 to send the message that we thought Saddam Hussein didn't have anything to do with September 11 and that Bush was rushing us towards an invasion of choice and we were dismissed as a focus group. Many different actions of this administration have left me apoplectic: the move towards a unitary executive, legalizing torture, editing out habeus corpus, just to name a few.
Maybe I'm not being honest by attempting to engage in civil discourse. What I really want to say, often, is, "How the fuck can you support a radical dismantling of many of the things that make this country great?" The main reason I don't go apocalyptic is that I don't see any benefit to engaging in that in this venue.
But that doesn't mean that I don't want to. None of us here have any power or control over the situation. To me, it would be like kicking sideways. When you're on the bottom, it's always best to kick up. When you're on the top, kicking down is a sign of weakness.
There is a difference, in my mind, between hatred and righteous anger. When you have no power, when you're constantly marginalized, when no one in a decision making position shares your values there are very few alternatives. When you are in control of everything, when you are part of the system, when you have a huge platform there are very many alternatives. I don't see similarities at all.
And all of that is why I have respect for your posts and often find them very persuasive. I commend you for not allowing that anger to cloud your judgement and degenerate your discourse. I too am often angered by some of the posts I read here, and I try to follow the same model as yourself.
I don't have a subscription to Limbaugh's site either. I can think of a million more useless things I would rather spend my money on, and then a billion useful things I should spend it on before wasting it on that. I disagree that it is my responsibiliy to provide it to you. I'm not the one taking a very heated stand on an issue without all the story. You and Sygnm are, and therefore it is your duty to find out if you are correct in your assumptions or if I'm full of crap. All I ask is that you not form an opinion until you have looked at all the evidence. I don't think that's an unreasonable request.
I'll concede that Rue, Sygnm, and Chrisisall do not have millions of listeners, but how does that justify their actions?
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"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."
---Napoleon Bonaparte
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Quote:LOL, Rush, with the great responsibility that should come with his position, can be an a**hole, and I can't, in a more limited and personal way here? This is the sourse of my problem w/you, the inequity- your apparent inability to weigh things reasonably.
Originally posted by Razza:
I'll concede that Rue, Sygnm, and Chrisisall do not have millions of listeners, but how does that justify their actions?
Fox goes off (or on?) his meds to show what's 'underneath the bandage', and suddenly ANYONE has the right to shake a finger at him?
Bullpatties.
See how I've toned down my language; I think I've grown Chrisisall
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Quote:Lies... yes, that was part of that post that was supposed to be an example of what Rush does. Speaks out of both sides of your mouth- I didn't write that. Blinded by ideology? Okay, you got me there. I said it, my bad.
You didn't attack or insult me? I thought I'm the one who lies, is blinded by my ideology, and speaks out of both sides of my mouth.
How is that different from saying that you're lying? How is that different from Rush saying that Fox was faking (lying)?
Quote:How do you justify Rush's? You keep sayng Rush "questioned" Fox's veracity. I didn't see any question marks at the ends of his statements- did you? If you did, post them here. I agree with Chrisisall- you're applying two very different standards.
I'll concede that Rue, Sygnm, and Chrisisall do not have millions of listeners, but how does that justify their actions?
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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It seems to me that it would be MORE honest for MJ Fox to be off his meds to illustrate the TRUTH of what Parkinsons is really like in it's untreated form. As it would appear, he needs them to even speak, so he has to be on them to simply do any ads at all. To paraphrase; Wanna see how bad this disease is? Well, let me peel this mask away and horrify you.
So Limbaugh's speculation is really a moot point. It doesn't matter either way. But what he characterizes to me are two things.
1) Rush is just mean. I don't think real conservatives are mean--tempermentally speaking (As a lefty how I miss old style conservatives. You could make deals with them at least...hash out some good policies). But on some level it just seems that cruelty for cruelty's sake is something that Rush just likes.
2) However what really scares me seems to be a cornerstone of Republican ideology. What Rush is saying in his "critique" if you can call it that, is,
"What you just saw with your own two eyes isn't really what you saw with your own two eyes."
With the war(makin' progress/we're liberators not invaders/fighting them "over there" etc) and the economy("improving") it seems that they are more than willing to stare at a fact sheet and say, "Naw...I don't like these "facts", I want better "facts".
The Truth, however, as we all famously know, is Out There. And you don't get to have your own "facts". Now that Republicans have used the religious right to pull their wagon for awhile, but there is the fact that they also are in a way, capable of stopping the wagon altogether, like a stubborn mule. This is because faith is the only thing that makes people ignore facts. "I know this is right because the Bible tells me", or "I just know in my gut" or in this case "Rush says so". But "faith" doesn't design airplane wings, computer chips, or better light bulbs. Truth is s slippery eel and its hard to pin down, but its there in all it's amazing and sadly, often inconvenient opposition to what we want. And the longer you try to avoid the facts, the harder they come back and whack you (kinda like compound interest) This is what is slaying the Republicans right now, in my opinion. (But also our culture too I think). Image, spin, neverending campaigns, all mistaking the cover for the book.
If there was evidence that MJ Fox was actually exaggerating his symptoms, well then I would also be critial. But the experts who know a hell of a lot more about Parkinsons say he was having "classic" symptoms. (Is that faith on my part? No...I think it's more trust in the systems that produce the credentials for such expertise, which are rigerous and systematic and have procedures to amend them when required).
So he's a famous guy who's really sick making appeals to the body politic to pursue promising but unproven work using embryoes that are going to be destroyed anyway. The truth of his disease is aweful to behold, we've all seen it. With our own eyes.
I've long held that when someone says something about someone else it tells you a hell of a lot more about the teller than the subject. And Rush never disappoints on that level, thats for sure.
later
BSG-30 Minnesotia
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me - There was sufficient cause to clarify what MJ Fox did, and Rush was well with in his right to do so. I'm glad he did.
misbehaven -
Quote:
I agree. If you are going to appear in an ad, then people have the right to question what you are saying. Rush did not initally do that. He resorted to mocking Fox and questioning his character and motivations. Of course Rush is still wrong, because Fox's character, unlike Rush's character, is beyond reproachable. Fox also campaigned for Republicans, so there is no political motivation for either party.
How do you know what Rush 'initially' did ? Were you listening to his show or watching it via web cam as all this unfolded? Did you catch all his comments, in context, as he was simply trying to EXPLAIN to the listeners / viewers as to the specifics of what was being discussed ? I WAS listening, and I'll bet dollars to donuts you weren't. Rush wasn't MOCKING Fox in the least.
me - If anyone is to blame here, it's not MJ Fox, but the Democrats who used him for this pathetic sympathy ploy to get folks to vote their way. It's beyond disgraceful
misbehaven -
Quote:
I wondered how long it would take before you blamed the Democrats for this. Yes! it is the Democrats fault. If they had not run an ad willingly featuring an admirable celebrity dying of a debilitating disease, then a typically uniformed Rush Limbaugh would not have made an ass out of himself and brought even more attention to the E.S.C. debate.
I can see why the Republicans are mad. This shines a nationwide spotlight on E.S.C. funding right before an election. It puts a recognizable face on the disesase. And it exposes most Republican Congressmen and the Bush administration for the unsympathetic panderers they are.
Well, it is the Democrats fault. A fact which seems unable to penetrate your thick skull. If they had not run a deceitful ad that lies about the issues with a willingly admirable celeb who has admitted to NOT having read the specific initiative being voted on in Missouri, there'd be no issue. No where does the ad meniton Federal funding for ESC research. All it does is pander the the overly emotional issue of a dying celebrity by falsly claiming the GOP wants to criminalize anyone who tries to help. Those who say ESC research is the answer to Parkinson's are the unsympathetic liars and panderers , NOT the GOP.
Had the MJ Fox ad simply said... "We want to clone embryos for the purpose of harvesting stem cells from these embryos and then destroy them, on the far flung chances that we'll someday find a cure to such diseases as Parkinsons and Alzheimers. Never mind that all the promising treatments for any diseases have already been found in ADULT stem cells, and that , to date, nothing of a treatment value has been found from embryotic stem cells. " ... THEN we'd be talking about an honest ad! But that isn't what the Dims did, now is it ?
The Dims intentionally used MJ Fox for the specific purpose of glossing over the details of this issue and to get the average joe six pack to simply feel sorry for Fox and vote the way his ad tells them to vote. It's shameful, it's disgraceful and worst of all, it's the promise of a cure which will never come in our life time. Not from ESCs. MJ Fox will be long gone before any such cure or treatment is found, and the odds greatly favor such a breakthrough will be found from ADULT stem cells, and not from embryos.
But the Left can go on living in its own little world, where the template of how the GOP is nothing but mean and makes fun of those with handicaps, and are pretty much nothing more than NAZIs.
( All this while the Dims are guilty of doing what they accuse the GOP of being, making fun of Rush for his hearing loss or battling over addiction to pain meds. Yes, true compassion from the Left.
)People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy.
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Thank you Rush Limbaugh... uh, I mean Auraptor. Now that I know you listen to HOURS of Rush every day, I know who does your thinking for you!
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:It's the whole post-it's okay to torture legislation thing.
Originally posted by citizen:
I thought some of the responses were a might over the top, especially from Chris, not because his were the worst it's just he's usually the guy least likely to go off like that.
I'm disgusted with all things neo-con, and Rush is right there. My Buddha side is in the shadow of my Shaolin, and I aim to misbehave, as far as pro-fascists go.
Like Max said, I don't have a lot of patience, and what little I had is now gone.
Bush and Cheney, as well as Rush, and any who agree with him, have declared themselves officially the enemies of Human freedom and decency.
Eff 'em.
Eff 'em all.
Something new Chrisisall
Chrisisall is the new black! He is my hero!
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Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
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