Rush Limbaugh, Michael J. Fox and Parkinson's Disease
POSTED BY: misbehaven
UPDATED: Saturday, November 18, 2006 01:39
VIEWED: 26984
PAGE 11 of 19
Soupcatcher:
I don't want to burst your bubble, but hatred is hardly limited to the conservative side of the issue. There is hatred quite evident in posts from this discussion coming from the other side, and very little that I see from my posts. Now I have great respect for your posts because you are always rational, coherent, and civil when you speak. But I fail to see how you can characterize Sygnm, Chrisisall, or Rue's responses to me as anything short of outright hatred. They are using the very same technique you attribute to the "Right Wing Assholes" who are trying to "silence the opposition". Now I know, you can argue that they were only doing so to make a point, but I don't see it. There is obvious vitriol in their posts that does not speak to a coherent intellectual motive.
As to Rush being an asshole and guilty of general assholery, I'm afraid we cannot agree on that. Just as I suspect you wouldn't agree that your three compadres have tended to engage in the same assholery.
I have no desire to silence those who disagree with me because I know such actions would be extremely harmful to myself as well as them. I want my beliefs questioned, because in so doing I they are bolstered or changed and I grow as a human being and become a better person for it. I see evidence of the same desire in your posts, but it is completely devoid in Rue's, Sygnm's, or Chrisisall's posts. It must be very comforting for them to live in a hermetically sealed self-affirming environment where anyone who disagrees with them can be easily dismissed as stupid or brainwashed by a radio talk show host.
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"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."
---Napoleon Bonaparte
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Just a taste of Rush's medicine. Because I can question your motives, your family history, the veracity of anything you say without any factual basis on my part, simply because you've entered a political debate. Right? If that's not the case, show me how Rush and I differ.
Rush questioned Fox's behavior based on a factual statement which Fox made himself. We can thank Rue for tracking down and posting the quote for us.
Quote:
Originally posted by Rue:
"I had made a deliberate choice to appear before the subcommittee without medication. It seemed to me that this occasion demanded that my testimony about the effects of the disease, and the urgency we as a community were feeling, be seen as well as heard. For people who had never observed me in this kind of shape, the transformation must have been startling."
Your attacks on me have no basis in fact, and this is the difference between you and Rush. Ironically, you are guilty of the very thing you accuse Limbaugh of doing so heinously.
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"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."
---Napoleon Bonaparte
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Quote:
...the American public overwhelmingly supports federal funding for embryonic stem cell research
Where'd you get that data? You stated earlier that GOP Senators and Congressmen are against Federal spending for Embryonic stem cell research, but that most Republican VOTERS are for it. I contend that the latter part of your statement is false. I for one see no need for the Federal dollars to be spent in this area, as it's not a proper function of Gov't. I'm more a Conservative Libertarian than a Republican, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that most GOP voters are for a smaller Gov't., one that is more responsible in how it spends its $$. And FYI, Bush is the 1st U.S. President to spend ANY Federal tax money on the research of stem cells. Only on the matter of embryonic stem cells does Bush with hold any FURTHER spending, but in no way has he outlawed or banned private or state funding in this area.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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I apologize in advance for the length, but you asked for data.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Where'd you get that data? You stated earlier that GOP Senators and Congressmen are against Federal spending for Embryonic stem cell research, but that most Republican VOTERS are for it. I contend that the latter part of your statement is false.
Here's the poll:
Advocates of this research say it can produce new treatments for disease, while critics oppose using embryos in research. After hearing these competing views, 58 percent of Americans support stem cell research, while 30 percent oppose it, according to a new ABCNEWS/Beliefnet poll. Six in 10 also say the federal government should fund it.
Do You Support Federal Funding for Stem-Cell Research?
Stem Cell Research
Personal view Government funding
Support Oppose Support Oppose
58% 30 60% 31
This ABCNEWS/Beliefnet poll, however, finds that people in these groups do not broadly oppose stem cell research. Catholics support it personally by a margin of 54 percent to 35 percent, and favor its federal funding by a slightly wider margin, 60 percent to 32 percent. (A small share of Catholics oppose the research personally, but support its funding as a matter of policy.)
Conservatives divide evenly on stem cell research. More Republicans support it than oppose it.
Among evangelical white Protestants — a conservative, largely anti-abortion, core Bush group — 50 percent support it, while 40 percent are opposed. Even among opponents of legal abortion, opposition to stem cell research falls just short of a majority, at 50 percent.
Support for stem cell research is much higher, moreover, among centrist groups that are also of interest to Bush politically — such as independents (62 percent support stem cell research), moderates (63 percent) and non-evangelical white Protestants (70 percent).
Stem Cell Research
Religion:
Support Oppose
Evangelical white Protestants 50% 40
White Catholics 54 35
Non-evangelical white Protestants 70 18
Ideology:
Support Oppose
Conservatives 44% 44
Moderates 63 26
Liberals 76 14
Politics:
Support Oppose
Republicans 49% 37
Independents 62 26
Democrats 65 27
Abortion:
Support Oppose
Legal 76% 15
Illegal 39 50
Among all groups examined in this poll, opposition to stem cell research is highest — 58 percent — among people who think abortion should be illegal in all cases (they account for one in five Americans). More moderate abortion opponents, who think abortion should be mostly, but not always, illegal, divide about evenly on stem cell research.
Quote:
I'm more a Conservative Libertarian than a Republican, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that most GOP voters are for a smaller Gov't., one that is more responsible in how it spends its $$.
I would say that is just another example of how Republicans are not getting want they want with this Republican Congress and Bush. Here is some more data:
'Conservative' Bush Spends More than 'Liberal' Presidents Clinton, Carter
by Veronique de Rugy and Tad DeHaven
Veronique de Rugy is a fiscal policy analyst and Tad DeHaven a policy researcher at the Cato Institute.
The Bush administration's newly released budget projections reveal an anticipated budget deficit of $450 billion for the current fiscal year, up another $151 billion since February. Supporters and critics of the administration are tripping over themselves to blame the deficit on tax cuts, the
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The key issue isn't 'stem cell reseach', but Embryonic stem cells. I have serious reservations as to any national news agency poll concerning issues of science and whether such polls have any real relevency. Simply putting it, I dobut the vast majority of ALL Americans have a clue as to what we're being asked. We have a Congresswoman who thinks the Mars Soujourner rover could be directed to take photos of the flag the ASTRONAUTS planted on the moon. From the Apollo missions to the moon 30+ yrs ago. The moon that revolves aournd Earth, and is no where near where the Sojourner rover now sits, on MARS. I rest my case.
Quote:
I would say that is just another example of how Republicans are not getting want they want with this Republican Congress and Bush.
No need to get ME started on the finer points of what both have done. I completely agree that Bush and this Congress have been abysmal failures for us fiscal conservatives in this regard. No argument here.
Quote:
Bush's only reason for not supporting FURTHER funding of stem cell research is because he is pandering to the religious Right.
Bush IS supporting further stem cell research, just not embryonic and not with Federal dollars. While he may certainly be pandering to his religous Right base, there's also a very pragmatic reason. Embryonic stem cells have, to date, yielded very little medical value. For all the 'potential', it's been adult stem cells which have yielded the most literal assistance to the treament of diseases. We can't do everything at once. If you're going to play that game, best put the $$ where it can offer the greatest pay back. So far, E.S.C research is a hole in the ground, where better returns could be expected elsewhere.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Part of what Rush SAID was "He is exaggerating the effects of the disease. He's moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act. This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox. Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting." Not that he had in the past not taken his meds and that he MIGHT have done the same thing again but AT THAT MOMENT, when the ad was being filmed, MJ was abolutely and without question doing SOMETHING to exaggerate his disease- exaggerate, which means that MJ's disease isn't really all that bad. You know- FAKE. I see why you're so confused- you don't listen very carefully and you don't understand what's being said.
I've already posted the main point twice, so I feel little need to do so again. But I'll repeat. Rush wasn't making fun of, trying to intimate that MJF isn't really that sick...What Rush did was correctly point out that MJF actively has, in the past adjusted his medication doses.
Quote:You also don't speak or think very carefully, another source of confusion. YOu said nothing about embyonic stem cell research. You said "medical research"- a whole nother story. Since I can only go by transcript, you tell me... did Rush say ANYTHING about EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH? Or was it all about MJ Fox?
And SIGNYM, I don't know why you're attempting to split hairs here, per my comment of 'medical', or 'stem cell' research. It SHOULD have been understood, with the topic we're discussing, that I meant EMBRYONIC STEM CELL research. And where you lose your bet is that not only did I specifically answer you, but you also go the point of the matter wrong!
Quote:So, having put no Federal research funds into this area of research (Federal funds are VERY important, my daughter's doctors are also researchers and I get an earful every time we visit) it is any wonder that there are few results? By that argument, I cna make an even stonger case for pulling the plug on Star Wars, where we HAVE sunk billions of dollars of research money into a hole in the ground.
Embryonic stem cells have, to date, yielded very little medical value. For all the 'potential', it's been adult stem cells which have yielded the most literal assistance to the treament of diseases. We can't do everything at once. If you're going to play that game, best put the $$ where it can offer the greatest pay back. So far, E.S.C research is a hole in the ground, where better returns could be expected elsewhere.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The key issue isn't 'stem cell reseach', but Embryonic stem cells.
I know that, as I am the one who started this thread. Since we were discussing E.S.C. research all along, I did not think it was necessary to continue writing it out in its entirety. Apparently, I was wrong.
Quote:
I have serious reservations as to any national news agency poll concerning issues of science and whether such polls have any real relevency.
I thought you might.
Quote:
We have a Congresswoman who thinks the Mars Soujourner rover could be directed to take photos of the flag the ASTRONAUTS planted on the moon. From the Apollo missions to the moon 30+ yrs ago. The moon that revolves aournd Earth, and is no where near where the Sojourner rover now sits, on MARS. I rest my case.
Thanks for serving that Red Herring. It was delicious
Quote:
Bush IS supporting further stem cell research, just not embryonic and not with Federal dollars.
Again. I am well aware of that Bush is not opposing all forms of stem cell research. I am not sure why you keep reiterating this point. Anyone who has been following this thread understands that we are talking about E.S.C. research.
Quote:
While he may certainly be pandering to his religous Right base, there's also a very pragmatic reason. Embryonic stem cells have, to date, yielded very little medical value. For all the 'potential', it's been adult stem cells which have yielded the most literal assistance to the treament of diseases. We can't do everything at once. If you're going to play that game, best put the $$ where it can offer the greatest pay back. So far, E.S.C research is a hole in the ground, where better returns could be expected elsewhere.
We are not realizing the same value, because Bush is placing limitations on funding. There is consesus from the scientists performing the research, which concludes that E.S.C. research possesses an enormous amount of potential. It is precisely because of this potential that it needs more federal funding.
"Truth springs from argument amongst friends."
-David Hume
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Quote:See my response to Auraptor.
Your attacks on me have no basis in fact, and this is the difference between you and Rush. Ironically, you are guilty of the very thing you accuse Limbaugh of doing so heinously.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Since I can only go by transcript, you tell me... did Rush say ANYTHING about EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH? Or was it all about MJ Fox?
Here in lies the problem. You, like many on this board, seldom ,if ever, listen to Rush's show. A few of you 'might' catch what few seconds the media plays by way of audio clips, but even then the point Rush is trying to make is being distorted.
This entire issue is specifically ABOUT EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH! That's why MJ Fox made the ads, that's why Bush is getting vilified by some in the science community, the media , etc. Rush wasn't attacking the messenger (MJ FOX) so much as he was attacking the MESSAGE! Folks then get all bent out of shape because Rush 'attacked ' a Parkinson's disease sufferer, and they completely overlook the facts of this issue.
I'm getting tired of repeating myself over and over.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
We are not realizing the same value, because Bush is placing limitations on funding. There is consesus from the scientists performing the research, which concludes that E.S.C. research possesses an enormous amount of potential. It is precisely because of this potential that it needs more federal funding
bush in only putting limits on FEDERAL funding. Let the free market decide if there's a need to fund ESC research. Let state's decide if they want to pick up the fight. The argument being made here is that it is not a proper function of Gov't to get into the business of funding the production of embryos for the sake of destroying them. Even if it means they 'might' be destroyed in the name of research. THAT IS THE GORRAM ISSUE!
Too many look toward the Federal Gov't as being the answer for everything. The point being made is that just as it's wrong to build a bridge to nowhere up in Alaska, it's wrong to spend $$ creating embryos for the sole sake of being destroyed.
MISBEHAVEN....., you started this thread with a false prmise...It's sad that a person's political ideology can run so deeply, that he feels justified in verbally attacking someone who's suffering from a debilitating disease just because he disagrees with the other guy's politics.
In no way what so ever did Rush 'verbally attack' anyone, and he definatly didn't do it 'just because he disagrees w/ the mj fox's politics. There in lies the problem. Folks simply hate Rush for what ever reason, and then base their views accordingly. As I've said before, if you're that narrow minded and ignorant on this issue, please do us all a favor and post on things you've heard yourself, and not rely on biased filters of colum writers instead.
Thanks.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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