Blondie Bear Vs. Captain Forehead

POSTED BY: deepgirl187
UPDATED: Saturday, December 9, 2006 01:29
VIEWED: 6794
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DEEPGIRL187

Saturday, October 28, 2006 9:49 PM

Well, it's down to the wire. I have two discs left of Angel and then I'll have offically watched everything in the Jossverse (well, except maybe the special features).

This past season has left me with a lot of questions, though. Specifically the relationship between Angel and Spike. The two main questions are this:

1) Why is there so much animosity between the two of them? I could understand Spike's dislike of Angel, but why does Angel seem to hate Spike so much? My mother's theory is that Spike reminds Angel of his time as Angelus. But are there other reasons?

2) Secondly, who do you think is the most moral of the two? Both have souls, both are champions. But does one have more ethics than the other? Is Spike better for actually earning a soul (and yes, I know he did it primarily for Buffy)? Or does Angel's years of "helping the helpless" make him the better vampire?

Some imponderables for our favorite fangbangers.

P.S. - As an unrelated sidenote, after watching "Smile Time", I truly believe Joss and the others are wedded to the forces of darkness.

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"So long and goodnight."

AURAPTOR

Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:59 PM

You'll see in the final few eps, but basically, much of it has to do w/ Buffy. ( Not all, though ) It really is great chemistry between Spike and Angel.

I can't decide between the 2 which is more 'worthy'. I'll take the lamer's way out and say it's a toss up.

(pssst...it's Spike, really )

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

ECGORDON

Sunday, October 29, 2006 1:59 AM

Angel is the more noble of the two, mainly because his actions are intended to atone for all of the bad things he has done even though he knows he can never be redeemed. All of Spike's actions are self-serving, either to get Buffy's attention or to irritate Angel.

I don't understand why there are so many who actually believe Spike tried to get back his soul in order to be with Buffy. His intention was to get the chip out of his head, not to get a soul, and the writers cheated in Season 7 to make it seem his soul was what he was after all along.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:13 AM

Yeah, were Spike only more brooding....

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AMYEL

Sunday, October 29, 2006 7:32 AM

1) There's a lot of reasons. I do think that a lot of it has to do with Angel not liking being reminded of his past. But also... Spike is just annoying. He has that particular talent. Spike is mad at Angel, Spike makes damn sure Angel is mad at him, Angel does more things to make Spike angry, Spike gets more annoying...the circle never ends. It's their thing. Fighting over Buffy is only their current pasttime but I believe they'll find plenty more reasons to hate each other throughout eternity.

2) Once you get through all of the episodes, you'll understand that the both of them are schmucks and both of them are heroes. They have different personalities and they do everything in a different way, but they're in the same place. And they're both jealous of each other (although they would never ever ever admit it). Angel cannot be good without a soul. His personality changes completely, and he's constantly worried about losing control. Spike with or without a soul is just Spike. There's a difference in regards to murders and such, but the personality doesn't change. Angel hates it that Spike doesn't suffer as much as he does. On the other hand, Spike is jealous of what Angel has. The girls always love Angel first. Angel can build a group of friends that would die for him (and all of them pretty much do, but that's another thing). Love is what Spike desperately wants but he can never get as much as he wants.

I just love the dynamic between the two of them. They fight like Itchy and Scratchy but deep down (deep, deep, deep, deep down) they love each other. They are the only two of their kind that exists and they happen to have over a century of shared history. All the reasons I love them together can be found in the last scene of "Damage".

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Sunday, October 29, 2006 11:14 AM

I just can't get past the fact that all of Spike's actions are self-motivated. In Buffy 5,6 & 7 he was just trying to impress Buffy, and in Angel 5 he was competing against Angel. The strange thing about Spike is that he doesn't act an awful lot differently ensouled and than he did before. Maybe having the chip was a transitional period before having a soul and stopped him from having Angels 'be a tramp for 100 years' effect? Like methadone.

What about the Shanshu prophecy? Who is the vampire destined to fufil that? That's the one thing I wish Joss had answered before ending the season!!

CYBERSNARK

Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:30 PM

If the prophecy is still in play, it has to go to Spike; Angel signed it away to W&H.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Sunday, October 29, 2006 5:14 PM

Nope, Angel's signature on the prophecy was different to the ones we had seen previously on season 5. So, way I see it anyway, he bluffed the Black Thorn with that signature! So he's still in the running for Shanshu. Theres a few sites that show pictures of the different signatures. I think this one has them:
http://www.geocities.com/docevampirospike/english/angel/files/
I'm wasted at the moment, I love being a student...

GROUNDED

Sunday, October 29, 2006 5:51 PM

He put pen to paper in his own blood, which I imagine in this context is a lot more important than what he actually writes. Besides, I doubt the Black Thorn could be fooled by a phony signature.

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Monday, October 30, 2006 10:28 AM

They were fooled by his crappy plan in general, why not by a phony signature? If it wasnt about what he wrote, he could have written anything - why his name?

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